Random Radio

[anonymousbroadcaster]

@RFBurns

As per above mention, I spoke in detail with the Move FM Lithgow tech this morning about the Wentworth Falls audio issue, he knows what it is, but doesn’t know

Sorry, my bad. but very interesting tales about 2KA, had no idea that they were that much close to the brink.

We now between my friends and I have a 24 hour feed going with the fresh mix dot com, thus now we can seriously start looking into syndicating our program material overnights on some other stations, hence why wanting to speak to the programing or management of 2OOO.

As per your post above noting that one of the mentioned stations is having issues with various program sound leveling, one would surmise that is just very pour programing skills at the back end. Now a days, modern software and tools can process the signel before it get’s to the DX equipment and site. We have a sound supression / limiter between what goes on in our studio, and what comes out on the web. I would surmise if a bare-bones internet station could do such, a fully established commercial station that would have a few more quid and contacts within the industry could at least sought better technical advice and equipment. Analogue/physical process equipment can be very expensive, but they are several good cheaper software options available today. but then that’s just my two bob worth.

[anonymousbroadcaster]

@RFBurns

I’ll ask the tech who’s the best to contact & how to contact them.

Thanks, much appreciated.

[lovemusic]

That’s really interesting. Up to $10m for Lithgow to set up DAB on multiple low powered sites , compared with $1-2m for Bathurst for a single high powered site.

If BOG proceed with Bathurst then will the ABC/SBS join them on another multiplex or will they bundle it into a single Category 3 multiplex to save on costs. Will be interesting to see any developments here.

[lovemusic]

DAB in the Blue Mountains is good in the car right up to Katoomba. It fades out by the time you get to Blackheath, which is heading towards Lithgow, so in other words, covers most of the Blue Mountains quite well in the car.

[Radiohead]

@lovemusic

If BOG proceed with Bathurst then will the ABC/SBS join them on another multiplex

Given the ABC seemingly didn’t want to go DAB on the Gold Coast with the others, I can’t see them doing Bathurst.

[lovemusic]

Yes, the ABC have given DAB the cold shoulder it appears, which is disappointing for regional listeners.

I can’t see them launching permanent DRM services either, as there are no receivers to buy , not to mention any car manufacturers installing them.

[thesub1]

Gorilla, ZOO, Fun & Dance would provide brilliant variety to the Bathurst region. So long as they were always on air.

[lovemusic]

None of them are on air in Sydney, aside from Gorilla, but I agree, they would be great for Bathurst.

[Ant5476]

@RFBurns

2LT & Move FM actually also have translator licenses to broadcast from Springwood, but ACMA took back the proposed frequencies & reallocated them to elsewhere in Sydney (similar to what they did with the main Move FM frequency, taking it back & selling it to what’s now Smooth FM on 95.3), so they have licences to broadcast into Penrith from lower down the Eastern side of the mountains, but no available frequencies to use.

Simple solution increase the ERP to 500W east for 99.5 / 101.1, that would provide coverage right down into Springwood, lower Blue Mountains and into Penrith, with exception of Lapstone and Enu Plains.

@Radiohead

Would it be possible to take an off air feed of 107.9 at the studio and then send that over the xDSL connection to Wentworth Falls… so the Optimod effectively does the audio smoothing for 99.5 as well?

That would be worth a try, and would it achieve the same level of audio quality as on 107.9 or would the low bit rate knock the quality down?

@RFBurns

ARN currently have a private Telstra Fibre link for CADA to site

Is this now the main link to the transmitter? Previously the STL microwave link was Macquarie Park / Artarmon TXA tower / Wentworth Falls. Is the microwave link now a backup similar t Hope’s setup?

[Radiohead]

@Ant5476

Simple solution increase the ERP to 500W east for 99.5 / 101.1

Could create too much overspill into Western Sydney. I know there’ll be the same argument in reverse about Sydney always having overspill into the Blue Mountains too.

[Ant5476]

@Radiohead

Could create too much overspill into Western Sydney. I know there’ll be the same argument in reverse about Sydney always having overspill into the Blue Mountains too.

Of course it would, even at 250W from Wentworth Falls would cover Springwood and would be rural grade or better into the unshaded parts of Penrith.

If they were to have translators at Springwood you would have similar coverage to the 100W 99.1 WS from Hawkesbury Heights into Sydney.
It Move / 2LT we’re to go dab+ which they won’t there was to be a Springwood translator for them.

I cannot see ARN investing in establishing a Katoomba dab+ licence for CADA, it is already on air in Sydney, and it has fortuitous reception back up the mountains.

[Radiohead]

I think the best solution for a lower Blue Mountains repeater would probably be at Winmalee with say 500 watts west and 100 watts south and east.

[radiolurker]

@lovemusic

If BOG proceed with Bathurst then will the ABC/SBS join them on another multiplex or will they bundle it into a single Category 3 multiplex to save on costs. Will be interesting to see any developments here.

Can anyone actually see BOG spending the money to set up DAB+ in Bathurst?

@lovemusic

Yes, the ABC have given DAB the cold shoulder it appears, which is disappointing for regional listeners.

I can’t see them launching permanent DRM services either, as there are no receivers to buy , not to mention any car manufacturers installing them.

You can thank CRA for that.

[RFBurns]

@Ant5476

Is this now the main link to the transmitter? Previously the STL microwave link was Macquarie Park / Artarmon TXA tower / Wentworth Falls.

Yes I believe the Fibre is the main link now, though it’s been in place for a number of years, about the same time (or just after) the community antenna was installed on the Artarmon tower, ARN replaced the microwave dish on the tower towards Wentworth Falls, so the fibre would’ve been in place before then, 6 months ago we had a couple of big lightning strikes on the Artarmon tower & ARN lost the MW link to Wentworth Falls for a couple of weeks, until they could get up the tower & fix it, so it’s definitely not a main link.

[RFBurns]

@Radiohead

I think the best solution for a lower Blue Mountains repeater would probably be at Winmalee with say 500 watts west and 100 watts south and east.

Don’t think you’d want that, high power going West would smack into the higher mountains behind Winmalee & reflect back East, causing mutli-path issues.

[TheChase]

@RFBurns

it’s due to the audio levels not being equal across programming & nobody at the studio sitting at the desk to adjust the faders to suit, it’s all to do with the AGC, it’s near impossible for him to get it to work across everything,

I’m confused as to why this is so hard to fix?

A few key things to note;

2LT (Which is also a mix of network and local programing) does not suffer from this issue, what was done for 2LT that cannot be done for Move FM.

The web stream for Move FM (Midwest Radio Network Stream) sounds quite good why not use that as the feed for Wentworth Falls with some onsite audio processing.

With Starter FM, I am able to run full FM ready audio leveling at the studio and then send it via stream, why couldn’t this be done at the studio and sent via stream to Wentworth Falls?

[RFBurns]

2LT has multiple AGC’s in the chain 3 or 4 the tech said, including one on the satellite because Hadley regularly goes off mic, so levels are all over the place, low then loud.
2LT is mostly talk, it’s the music levels within songs & quiet or silence spots between music & music/talk mix & the news levels that’s causing the problems on Move FM, issues with attack & release times is part of the issue, because levels vary so much, what works some of the time doesn’t work other parts of the time

Probably could use the web stream, but then I’ve heard some of you complain about feeding sites with web streams & sounding shit, some here are never happy.

Like I said it’s money to do something & revenue to pay for it, sure it wouldn’t be an issue with a $40k Optimod like I said, hell I could fix it with a $5k processor probably, but a $1500 or $600 processor just can’t do what’s needed, he’s thinking of putting an Inovonics AGC in line & seeing how that goes.

This tech isn’t your average community radio tech who has no experience, he’s been around for years, with plenty of experience, he engineers for a lot of the Sky Racing transmissions around NSW (Western side of the mountains), Midwest Radio, a number of community stations including 2OOO FM, he looks after the Wentworth Falls CADA for ARN & other commercial stations as a contract tech when needed, back in the 70’s/80’s & probably 90’s he worked in Sydney radio, I think at maybe 2UW, & has worked at the ABC also I think, when he says it’s a hard problem to solve I believe him.
Give him the funds & I’d bet he’d have it fixed in 10 minutes, patching together cheap shit that really doesn’t cut it, trying to make something work is much harder.

Cut the Starter FM funding by 2/3rds, don’t install any equipment worth more than $1500 & see how you go making all the audio sound good, all the time, there’s not a lot of cheap stuff that’s even half decent available to buy now.

[RFBurns]

Just for anyone interested in how hard it might be to get Move FM Wentworth Falls sounding good using cheap equipment, Koori FM at Artarmon has one of the most basic, cheap processors on the market that I’ve ever used, it’s a Deva Broadcast DB64-FM processor, it cost about $3500 & while it sounds quite good, I have it running on a “Natural” profile setting, if I try to process it harder, such as a Rock, CHR, or Adult Contemp. profile, it struggles, with it starting to sound crap & pumping starts to happen on some music, probably similar things as what’s happening with Move FM Wentworth Falls, I never left it with harder settings very long to find out how many problems & how bad it actually sounded.

[Radiohead]

@RFBurns

Probably could use the web stream, but then I’ve heard some of you complain about feeding sites with web streams & sounding shit, some here are never happy.

Web streams can sound good with a high enough bit rate, though would probably cost more to go from 32 to say 96 kbps, but would it cost that much these days?

[RFBurns]

Not really, but he’s setting the input to data rates the 4G can handle well if it happens to drop back to that because of an NBN network issue.
If the 4G network is loaded when it falls back, it mightn’t be able to pass much data at all, I’m sure you’ve all winged at times how slow data’s loading things on your mobile phone when you’ve been in crowded areas or just even at peak times of the day when everyones on their mobile phones.