Digital TV Technical Discussion

BTN’s choice of footage sources on their “Sports” section is interesting. They’re mostly Fox Sports and Adelaide(?) FTA rips, although I did spot WIN once (pre-mappymark (October 2016), on a Supercars race) and camera-recorded Eurosport footage more recently!

I have done a couple of web searches. Has anyone had any luck finding detailed technical specs of digital TV transmitters?

Looking for things like directional transmitter outputs that the radio Licence Area Plans include.

The LAPs for TV only seem to go as far as basic details, plus CD listings (unlike radio).

This might help: https://www.acma.gov.au/-/media/Broadcasting-Spectrum-Planning/Data-file/Spreadsheet/TV-planning-data-web-xlsx.xlsx

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It does! Thank you :grinning:

How is it used?

This article appeared in my MPs newsletter that I received yesterday.

Promises 3 new digital TV towers for Lake Macquarie. The region is already serviced by 4 sites.

I assume the 3 will be additional and will have to be an SFN with the Belmont North and Warners Bay sites in Block B.

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Some Lake Macquarie residents are buying satellite dishes to improve local television reception and are disappointed that it doesn’t work, according to that MP.

Labor have been banging on about doing that for years, but don’t actually follow through.

Initially when the Belmont North & Warners Bay translators were planned (along with the others around the region), there was 1 planed for the Caves Beach area, but further planing found it not needed.

I’d guess though one of these 3 promised sites would be Caves Beach, I’m not sure where the other 2 would be though?

Not much further South & you’re getting into the Metro license area crossover, all these infill sites are Operated by Regional Broadcasters Australia (part of Free TV Australia), would the Southern infill sites include the metro stations or only the regional ones, if it’s only the regional stations the metros might have something to say about it?

I don’t generally agree with the areas of issue either, & before I became a broadcast tech in Sydney for TXA, I was a TV antenna installer around Newcastle, so can speak with some knowledge.

The Warners Bay site was initially planed for the top of the hill at Eleebana to beam into Warners Bay, but testing showed it would be better where it is, & it covers parts of Mt Hutton also.

Belmont & Belmont North are well covered by Mt Sugarloaf (depending where you are), the Belmont North translator or Forresters Beach, get a decent antenna installer if you have issues here.

Parts of Caves Beach I’d say would have issues, but can probably use Forresters Beach instead of Mt Sugarloaf?

Charlestown, no I can’t see anywhere here that wouldn’t be already covered by a local site, (Kotara, Warners Bay, Mt Sugarloaf, Forresters Beach if high enough on the hill, & parts can get the Merewether site also).

Mt Hutton, maybe parts, but a good antenna installer should be able to get good success without too much trouble.

Dudley, yes I’ll agree on parts, but then I have had success using the Kotara, Merewether & Mt Sugarloaf sites here.

Eleebana, can be difficult on the Valentine side of the hill & Croudace Bay area, but again I’ve had success here using Mt Sugarloaf, & Forresters Beach up high enough on the hill.

In some of these areas where I’ve had success in the past, people have had a taller antenna 5-10m above the roof line, to help with ghosting on analogue TV, but with digital from the same site (mostly Mt Sugarloaf), tests have proven a lower antenna 1.2m above the roof line not 8-10m was actually better.

If it was to be done, you’d have to re-engineer a few sites, & if it was me, (I’d have to engineer to confirm), but I’d put an antenna array on the East side of the Kotara translator (currently none), I’d put a new site on the top of the hill at Whitebridge (water tank/mobile phone tower area), a new site on the top of the hill at Eleebana (the knob), & a new site on the top of the hill at Caves Beach (near water tank/old lookout), & possibly move the Belmont North site closer to the Green point area as Jewels would now be covered by the Whitebridge site.

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Part of the problem is Newcastle and Illawarra are co-channeled. Come summertime during coastal tropo ducting, the signals clash and kills the local reception. Either Illawarra or Newcastle needs to be reallocated to different frequencies but that would also mean adjoining areas that rely on those transmitters would need to be reallocated too.

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And the funny thing is, the translator sites are fed off air from Mt Sugarloaf, & like the Port Stephens site (until they changed it to microwave fed), the Belmont North site at least also suffers from the co-channel interference, & kills the transmissions, so those relying on the local translator to alleviate the co-channel issues, still suffer, because the translator site drops out at the same time.

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I read that too. Their sat dishes don’t work, come on.

Already four sites and plans to increase to seven. Why? Inefficient use of spectrum.

The elephant in the room is lurking, the restack is a dud to have Knights Hill and Sugarloaf on the same block, separate them and increase the power for the main site to do what it should be doing.

Those working at NBN must read these local mail outs and laugh their heads off.

@RFBurns, great summation of the problems and solutions offered.

@Mechsta, agree, your post has appeared since I began typing mine, tropo ducting is the problem.

If the main sites were on different blocks, at least the translators would be the ones to suffer, but at a lesser frequency as more would have main site reception and they wouldn’t be fed by a co-channeled off air feed.

@Radiohead, thanks for the effort to upload. I pity your local representation.

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Thanks to all, and yes, I agree the Illawarra co channeling is the biggest issue, I suffer from that regularly during summer.

I agree on the sat dish issue too, and agree with @RFBurns on the suggested sites if they were ever to materalise.

The Belmont & Belmont North issue, I can only assume these complaints are either from people who don’t know about the infill sites and/or are complaining about the infills being knocked out during ducting.

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Likewise, my Illawarra TV reception goes from 10/10 signal quality to 0 when there’s strong ducting.

If they’re going to restack the TV channels, at the same time they should restack the FM radio frequencies as well due to the co-channel issues between Wollongong/Nowra stations and Central Coast stations – namely, 98.1, 94.9, 94.1 and also, in the future, 93.3 (which has been allocated to 2RPH in Wollongong).

2RPH could potentially be a Wollongong/Sydney/Newcastle SFN on 100.5. ABC NewsRadio Gosford on 98.1 could also potentially SFN with 90.9 Illawarra, though they would need to switch to the satellite feed instead of the current metro feed.

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…and unless something is done, I wouldn’t be overly surprised if the Mt Sugarloaf/Knights Hill co-channelling issues get worse in the future (more interference for extended periods of time, etc) because signal ducting will probably happen more often in the future due to climate change.

Mind you, with all the talk about signals from Mt Sugarloaf receiving interference from Knights Hill, I wonder how often the other way round has occurred? Obviously we’re aware that DVB-T signals from Mt Sugarloaf have in the past been received as far South as the Macarthur region of South Western Sydney.

And pre digital, WIN-3 from Brokers Nose, did it suffer due to co-channeling with NBN-3?

Yep, it sure did. I can remember watching WIN3 in a hotel room in Wollongong and there was very noticeable horizontal lines across the screen.

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Doesn’t answer your question, but I remember regularly getting WIN’s audio on 91.75 MHz and 92 MHz on my radio here in Sydney.

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Not as much I would think, as I think the escarpment would protect most Wollongong suburbs from northern signals.

Would most likely impact along the coastal fringe and around Shellharbour.

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I have family in that suburb, close to the beaches, and never noticed such interference problems in Summer when visiting them. Reception problems in that area are more likely to come from the cockatoos that like to perch on the antennas and peck away at the cables.

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Just throwing a spanner in the works for you guys to get your heads around re. co-channel interference from Knights Hill/Mt Sugarloaf.

We have had on a number of occasions over the last few summers, signal input issues at our Picton/Vault Hill site (which is fed off air from the Razorback site just up the road on UHF).

During testing in late January/February this year, I discovered the problem that kills that site is caused by co-channel interference from ducting coming from the Raymond Terrace translator site. :astonished:

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