Its Friday arvo… ur forgiven! 
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No excuse for me, since I’m retired now!
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I’ve started populating the Aust RDS List with mentions of the RDS2 tests transmissions on the above Rebel/The Breeze transmissions. You’ll find in blue italics in the notes column in Worksheet 4 appearances of where implemented; Currently trailing RDS2 - [insert date]
I thought I’d settled on 17 worksheets for the RDS list, but given todays notes above from @AJ1 & @Parex11 I’m wondering if I should create another worksheet that lists the tuners/after market head units & associated firmware, tabletops receivers, software etc that can decode & display RDS2 
I’m sure it could be useful info for consumers & techs/engineers that want to have it or at least trial it in future. If any such lists exist anywhere else let us know.
So with the vehicles & aftermarket head units etc that can decode & display the logo files, which are transmitted on the extra 3 RDS subcarriers (RDS2), do we know if full RDS2 decode & features functionality (such as Long PS) is provided by those units?
Is there any promotion of RDS2 on the product literature/specs sheets of these pieces of equipment? It’s difficult to find much about RDS2 decoding equipment out there other than comparison tables & benefits of RDS2 and yes I realise it’s still early days.
I guess if AJ tests later with Long PS (and longer RT) & Parex11 provides some feedback per decoding on earlier tested equipment we’ll have more answers flowing through later. It’s all so interesting & 
.
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Id be more that happy to keep testing for you @ozbark. Me and @AJ1 can liase as needed when changes happen and we can test, from my testing and conversations, the beta software in the encoders doesnt quite support long PS just yet, however there is an updating coming within the next week or so that may allow us to test. And further to @AJ1’s comments last night I took a drive this arvo out to Canungra and can confirm the RDS2 is working from the MPX off air tuners, Rebel & Breeze Canungra are relaying the full MPX despite the age of the infrastructure.
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Thanks, I’ve added the 103.3,92.9 & 93.7 repeaters RDS2 notes to the sheet.
I can’t find any internet list of RDS2 receivers, it seems largely a undocumented feature. For these early days, I agree a list of known RDS2 receivers could be useful if enough people are willing to add to it, as more stations add RDS2.
We’ll do more thorough field tests before committing to keep it running, but it looks promising so far. Zero listener complaints. It’s one reason (besides running out of encoders lol) we are leaving Logan 90.5 as RDS1 only for now, for comparison to Logan 92.1 running RDS2.
I’m unsure, there may be limited Long PS support in RDS1 (i.e. EON PS Name) or it’s in RDS2 only - either way the receivers (and encoders) need to support it. We’ll look into how/when we can implement it.
From what Parex11 reported, the Dodge RAM has a nice RDS2 implementation, and good to see it already in a mainstream Kia. Knowing Kia, that hopefully will filter down through their range. Promising.
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RDS2 can run 1-3 sub-carriers. We’re running three, which is good to check reception changes. Station logo (ODA stream) on just one of them currently. Other 2 unused. Hence the longish ~70s logo transmission time.
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We’ve got RDS2 on 8 transmitters - enough for a trial in different environments. Unsure of any other RDS2 stations in Aus. Stations interested - the Pira RDS1/RDS2 hardware encoders or Thimeo extra module licences are around $500 ea. Not a lot to lose.
So - who is next?
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Not much to gain either… don’t think I’d see any return on that investment for a handful of receivers, particularly as Apple CarPlay and Android Auto become more widespread - RDS displays are becoming harder to find or see in most cases.
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This shows you a disconnect between the innvoators/leaders and the why bother, just do the the bare minimums right here… no offence. But @AJ1 and the other community stations are the innovators in this country.
Your telling us that within the huge budgets the big commercials have they cant spend $299-$599 on a Pira unit but even Braidwood FM & SWR 99.9 can, not to mention what @AJ1 has with his Pira units.
Guess personalites who spew sex jokes cost money, and they’d rather produce gutter trash radio playing the same songs over and over in a overdriven and distorted mess of audio, than technical innovation.
Not to mention the sound quality difference… Rebel and Breeze have what I regard as the best sounding FM’s in the country from a technical perspective(and programming 
), I mean look at our local commercials here… Hot Tomato Distorts, Sea FM and Triple M sound like over driven bass junkies cars going down the road on a Saturday Night while the boot rattles at a car meet, and the Brisbane SCA stations are even worse, should see those abominations on a spectrum analyser! (and also this from a network that thinks 32kbps streaming sounds GOOD,for whoever their backward thinking techs are, this is 2024 not 1997 DialUp era internet radio!).Nova sound ok, but KIIS is suffering the same overdrive too! God No wonder ratings are down and people are turning to Spotify… They get listener fatigue even turning on the big commercials these days. Maybe give the Optimod a break and stop over driving it.
And I don’t know how you can call Kia’s and Ram’s a “handful of receivers” plus the other ones I’ve mentioned… So many people are putting aftermarket solutions in that will have this tech baked in. But I guess that speaks volumes, because on my aftermarket radio in my Subi, Rebel and Breeze are now at the top of the station list with prominent placing (larger icons, with IMAGES!, it looks so whats the word… PROFESSIONAL!) than all the other commercials and communites combined… and when it picks up 92.1 from time to time it pushes them even further down, talk about an omen for your balance books!
What makes this even funnier is no matter what shop I go in, no matter what building site I pass, or person I talk to, their favourite station here is either Rebel, Breeze or one of the community stations. So yeah, I think the public is waking up too.
True disconnect right here… rolls eyes … Some people its a passion, some its a job I guess…and one their not very good at, apparently
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Some fair points Matt. Internet & connected car systems will ultimately win the broadcast race against FM - with or without RDS2. And not a lot to gain adding RDS2 right now.
I recall adding RDS1 ~20 years ago and not even owning a RDS1 radio to view it on. Today it’s ubiquitous.
If RDS2 can give FM listeners a better interim experience - deliver a more more modern, attractive & competitive experience to digital platforms - it may help FM keep an edge longer, if it ends up supported in enough receivers.
A lot of íf’s in there. RDS2 may sink or swim, but broadcasters have to take the lead for enough additional radio manufacturers to consider supporting it.
If the RDS2 encoders were $10k, it would be different. It’s a low risk experiment. At only $500 capital per station as a once off, we feel it’s unlikely that small investment won’t be recouped in some way in larger regional markets.
Either way, it will be interesting to see where it’s all at in 5 years.
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I’m certainly not against innovation. We do this every day in finding new and better ways of doing things - mostly behind the scenes that the listeners know nothing of.
I have over 130 RDS Encoders active at the moment, 95% of them are integrated into audio processors. The metro and major regional sites carry TMC data of which a Pira unit cannot cope with (trust me, we tried) so we are restricted in what units we can deploy.
In a declining advertising market, justifying over $65k to equip each station with a new RDS encoder (based off $500 per unit) is a very difficult sell. Not to mention the cost of getting them deployed around the country, and potentially increasing rack space at a TX site which we pay for these days.
Good luck with your rollout Aaron, I hope your testing goes well, and fingers crossed it does cut through in the market.
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Understandable for SCA Matt. We don’t have TMC data or rack space considerations, so fewer obstacles and costs for us to give RDS2 a trial. Thanks for the good wishes. It’s an interesting experiment.
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I’m more seeing it from a listener point of view even though I am a broadcast tech. To me, it seems that others are innovating while some are happy with the status quo and the Questionable programming decisions of the big commercials are leaving them stuck in the past.
And on the internet offerings side. I hate, completely hate, the approach that SCA and Nova have done where as you REQUIRE their app to listen to them. At least iHeart opened itself up to community but there is issues. I remember 5-6 years ago, I could just download Tunein and I had everything. That was a step in the right direction but it seems weve gone backwards. Nova saw this and reinstated their Tunein presence, and to be honest one app for worldwide stations at the listeners discretion of what they download is the way to go, rather than sealing them in. And at the moment the only ones missing are SCA, and Listnr is a battery hog and is buggy as hell on Android, which is why I just made the decision personally to abandon listening to SCA stations
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You guessed right.
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Didnt I ever
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And also
I’ve been streaming the TEF a fair bit lately. Anyone can listen and compare KIIS101.1, with Fox FM, for example, and clearly hear the difference of an Optimod (I assume that’s what KIIS is using) being driven to the absolute shithouse. It sounds so painful.
I don’t think cost is an issue, they’re simply not interested. Isn’t that usually the case anyway, for commercial stations to follow a trend, not lead it?
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There seems to be trend with some engineers that a shit ton processing is only barely enough.
If you get bored, get stereotool (Thimeo) and download some presets… the punters from that forum who some are broadcast engineers seem to love the distorted squashed “abomination” as Parex called it
I did hear that KIIS Sydney has 2 processors onair… an Wheatstone FM-55 at the TX and a optimod at the station.
This might of changed now but would explain while looking at 106.5 on a mod meter it just pegs the needle even with talk breaks.
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Not exactly, KIIS (& WSFM) have a Optimod 8600 as the main on air one & a Wheatstone FM-55 as backup, the Optimod does MPX & the FM-55 does AES feed to the transmitter, both are in the PIE rack at the transmitter site, they don’t have processors at the studio. Been like this since at least around 2014.
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Just what I heard!
New music is that compressed, Limited and clipped there is no need for that type of “wall of sound”
It shouldnt be called a optimod when its setup like that… should be called a DC converter!
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Optimods have a very good remaster function that can be used… so really no excuse.
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