Radio Data System (RDS)

I’ve noticed this afternoon that Vintage FM, at least via 88.7 from Razorback (near Camden), is now using RDS in the form of Dynamic PS, which goes like this:

“VINTAGE”
“FM”

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I was out and about in the Sunshine Coast Hinterland this weekend and was able to confirm that 89.5 4JJJ Nambour does indeed have RDS. But boy do they have some issues with it. I believe the techs here talk about issues with injection levels, and that would certainly appear to be the case, as anything more than ~5km from the transmitter without perfect LOS and it was not possible.

Even staring directly at the transmitter it was a struggle to decode anything, and sitting at the Dulong Lookout carpark (some 200m up the road from the TX site), it was very slow to decode. But driving down the hill from Mapleton I did get it to decode twice. Station name was ‘triple j’ and program type ‘Nation Music’, and Artist - Title appeared in the RadioText, so seemingly exactly the same as 107.7 Brisbane.

Didn’t get a chance to check the other ABCs from the site unfortunately - might have to do another trip up that way sometime soon (worth it for the views alone) and map out what’s the case on 88.7 et al. I’d also love it if anyone else could verify that I wasn’t imagining things, as I believe that would mean it’s one of the only ABCs outside a cap city with RDS on?

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99.3 2NSB now only updating their RT messages once every 10minutes.
Must be amongst the slowest RT message changes of Aussie RDS broadcasters.

Forgot to include this RDS update the other day.
98.9 4AAA. Station has a formating problem with their RDS RT
For their song & artist RT message it displays as:
[Artist] - [Title] _______________ . 98.9fm

Fascinating. I wonder if any of our readers with a SDR in the area can confirm @tamago_otoko findings with a MPX spectrum capture of 89.5 4JJJ Nambour?
Bandwidth needs to be greater than 140kHz wide to capture the 57kHz RDS subcarrier.

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96.3 96three - Geelong, Vic.

The station now using Group 4A, Clock Time (CT) in their RDS stream.
Unfortunately time incorrectly set…

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It does have RDS as my tuner in the car comes up as preset 10 when it lands on 89.5 (which is what I have triple j Brisbane saved as)

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I’ve got a pretty good signal but unfortunately can’t decode anything. A couple of spectrum grabs og 89.5 JJJ.

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Hi @TV.Cynic
Thanks for pics :slight_smile:
What software are you using above?
Clearly no 57kHz subcarrier showing in the MPX spectrum, so zero chance of decoding anything.
Semi-local signal strength stations don’t often show as detailed MPX as the locals, but semi-locals will usually show a 57kHz RDS subcarrier in the MPX spectrum.
I’m assuming RX bandwidth extended beyond 140kHz, if so, then
a) either RDS subcarrier is extremely low level. OR
b) the TX or TX baseband signal feed is filtering the higher audio/MPX signal(?)

With local RDS FM signals, with MPX spectrum it’s usual to also see harmonics of 19kHz & 38kHz in the MPX spectrum, ie 76kHz, 95kHz etc.
The above MPX spectrum looks a little flat after about 56kHz, but maybe normal for a semi-local.
Only a stronger (local) signal MPX capture could reveal more.
Can only speculate from pics that RDS subcarrier must be extremely weak? :astonished:

Good :+1:
Must be using same PI code as Brisbane.

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The software is Elad FDM SW2 - BW was 192kHz. These are the spectrums for 91.1 from that area and the Zinc 96.1 from a bit further with poorer reception.

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In @TV.Cynic first Triple J spectrum grab, you can clearly see the 2 stripes where the RDS sub-carriers should be, & you can see a couple of tiny peaks also where they should be, so I’d say, yes there’s RDS there, but it’s very weak, only just being above the channel noise.

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Thanks @TV.Cynic for those comments & pics. Those details reveal a lot more.
Firstly that’s a very good SDR you have as I recall from receiver reviews, sensitive radio with great dynamic range etc.

From MPX spectrum pic: The -84dB noise floor beyond MPX56kHz on the 89.5MHz signal shows that you do have a great & normally sufficient signal.

To date the lowest RDS subcarrier level I can recall seeing used in practice is around -60dB. For a RDS subcarrier to be set below -84dB indicates something not set-up properly at the TX end.
Even with my local stations during quiet or silent audio periods it’s difficult to have high end frequency MPX levels below -87dB. All very interesting…

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This is ABC Classic 88.7 and ABC Local 90.3


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The other JJJ’s in the area that are receivable at a moderate level don’t show any sign of the subcarrier - neither a spike or a band showing up in the spectrum history. That’s Darling Downs 104.1, Gold Coast 97.7, Southern Downs 103.3 and Wide Bay 99.3.

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2HD 90.5 RDS as per “Newcastle Radio” post.

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2JJJ-1057-20210627J

‘There’s always Hope’ that someone at the transmitter site can get the RDS RT data feeds sent out to the correct transmitters…
Maybe a COVID19 lockdown blues pi_s-up happening at the Gore Hill or Artarmon TX site? :thinking: :joy: Sorry just having some fun.
Thought my SDR software having some weird issue, but no.

Seriously this isn’t a mock-up - it’s happening now on 105.7 triple J Sydney.

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Lol!

And that Hope are at Artarmon and Triple J is at Gore Hill, so it’s not even the correct site, let alone correct antenna.

Is there anything weird also on the Hope RDS?

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…that Kingsmill might retire?

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No, Hope 103.2 RDS RT data feed & other RDS is okay.

I also checked DAB+ text feed for triple j Sydney & that was fine.
So only happening on 105.7 FM Sydney.

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Further to the Triple J 105.7 Sydney RDS RT feed problem - which continues:-

There’s apparently two different Hope RT feeds or sources.

103.2 Hope FM has this one with additional Song /Artist info when song playing, else a cycle of 4 RT messages.
10:21:35 Donate on Ph: 1300 36 1032
10:21:41 www.facebook.com/hope103.2
10:21:48 Donate @ www.hope1032.com.au
10:21:55 Hope 1032 - Unite In Hope
(repeats)

105.7 triple J has this one with a cycle of 5 RT messages + song info when song playing.
Looking at Hope FM’s DAB+ feed I’m fairly sure triple J FM RDS RT is being feed by the Hope FM DAB+ RT feed.
10:23:12 Hope 1032 - There’s always Hope
10:23:27 www.facebook.com/hope103.2
10:23:42 Donate on Ph: 1300 36 1032
10:23:57 Donate @ www.hope1032.com.au
10:24:11 Unite In Hope Appeal
(repeats)

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This is getting interesting, I’ll let the HOPE tech know, to see if he can find what’s going on, I’m working from home in Newcastle at the moment, but did mention this issue to the guys at Artarmon this morning, I’ll give them this further info.

Not sure how Triple J FM RDS would be being fed with Hope DAB+ RT feed as there shouldn’t be any DAB+ feeds going to Gore Hill, & the fact that all Community DAB+ feeds go through the CBAA then all get fed together to Artarmon to be multiplexed in with the commercials in the DAB+ PIE Rack at Artarmon.

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Thanks for your help @RFBurns
Noticed this afternoon that now fixed :slight_smile:

Something else I’ve noted with triple j RDS is that they’re now only providing song title & artist info in their RDS RT feed, other info not seen for sometime.

Be nice if Hope FM could reduce their rapid RT messaging. During their song breaks they’re changing their RT messages at the rate of every 6 to 8 seconds → way too fast.

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