Labor has kinda wedged themselves between a rock and a hard place on this one. Intially I’d say their response was pretty close to the Coalition with their condemnation of Hamas but they’ve slowly becoming more pro-Palestine as it drags on (led by the factions on the left).
I don’t know what the solution is for them on this one- there’s such ferocious passion on both sides of this debate that a middle ground seems nearly impossible to achieve.
And the problem with this debate is that people have taken sides without even thinking about the others. The Coalition says Israel is suffering without referencing Palestinians, whilst the Greens and co are condemning Israel for atrocities when the root cause of it was Hamas that’s actually Palestinians. Facts get muddled.
The reality is (and is something taken by Labor until recently):
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Whilst peace was never really long-term, it existed until October 7.
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Hamas (a terrorist organisation no less) was the first to attack Israel in this round, which should be universally condemned and indeed Israel has the right to defend itself.
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Israel’s intent to fight and bring down Hamas is a good one, but their all or nothing approach results in killing innocent Palestinians to the point where there is a humanitarian crisis at the moment, all the while Hamas is still active and fighting. Had they eradicated Hamas effectively with minimal loss of life, Israel probably wouldn’t be getting a bad wrap.
Labor’s issue at the moment is that they’ve got a big multicultural base but with that there’s opposing forces between the Jewish population and large Middle Eastern, Muslim base that forms their stronghold in places like Western Sydney. Add to that you’ve also got a lot of Labor MPs on opposing sides of the argument (Josh Burns, Mark Dreyfus are Jewish, Ed Husic, Anne Aly are Muslim etc). It makes it hard to have that middle ground when their own caucus is divided on action and stance.
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Can’t disagree with that. Hamas is a terrorist organisation that needs to be eradicated at all costs. But that doesn’t give Israel the pass to do whatever they like to the detriments of those Palestinians who oppose Hamas and have nothing to do with the politics of it all.
But that’s another debate for another topic.
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I’d say McNamara will be an easy pickup for the greens if Josh burns doesn’t take a stronger pro-Palestine stance. I think a lot of the millennials and gen z in the seat that thought Josh was progressive enough last time will be pushed to vote green next time. And he only scaled over the line in 2022. Being Jewish does not always mean pro-Israel, in New York the Jewish areas are very progressive, Melbourne might be the same.
One thing that does strike me as curious with the amount of progressive support for Palestine in this country- given the brand of conservative Islam that a lot of Palestinians and their allies in the wider the Middle East (such as Iran and Saudi Arabia) subscribe to, any future hypothetical Palestinian state is unlikely to be overly welcoming when it comes to the other issues that matter to progressives such as LGBT rights, womens rights, tolerance of minority groups etc.
If there’s anyone here that is socially progressive and pro-Palestine, I am genuinely curious as to how you are able to reconcile the two positions.
I do wonder if this is worth splintering off into it’s own thread although on a matter such as this it is potentially fraught with danger given the passions involved.
Have made a new thread: Israel-Palestine conflict
Back to Aussie politics and it was interesting that the BBC published an article today about the housing crisis:
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The housing crisis is creating a class divide in this country. If you’re young, you pretty much need to have parents who own their home and who are willing to help you out with a deposit to even have a chance of getting a foot in the door. If your parents aren’t well to do (or rent themselves), well, you’re basically screwed. So many older people are also being screwed over too especially if they’ve never been in a position to buy their own home, housing insecurity is a scourge affecting all ages and not just a youth issue.
Our cities are pretty much at capacity as it is and urban sprawl has gone too far already. Increasing the number of apartments/higher density developments would be a big help but strata title and body corporates are a big turn off.
I’m a big fan of the HDB model used in Singapore, and would love to see that idea bought to Australia for housing in metropolitan areas and in the urban core of larger regional areas (with perhaps a few tweaks).
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-08/behind-the-design-of-singapore-s-low-cost-housing
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The Morrison government failed to hand over some national security-related cabinet documents from the time of the Iraq war to the National Archives of Australia for potential public release.
In a statement issued on Monday, the department of prime minister and cabinet revealed that the previous government had failed to hand over all of the 2003 cabinet documents, including documents prepared for the national security committee of cabinet, to the National Archives of Australia in 2020.
The department says the missing records were found on 19 December 2023. The department jointly inspected the records with the archives on 22 December 2023.
It will take some time before they can be considered for potential release. The material will need to be examined by security agencies and other relevant bodies and may still be deemed exempt from release.
I still think the term is appropriate when we reach a point where your family background determines what opportunities you get in life over and above anything else (which we are just about at now in my view).
Socialism is also far from dead, after reaching a nadir in the 1990s and early 2000s it’s become very trendy with today’s youth, who feel betrayed and left behind by capitalism. That’s a problem capitalist governments need to address with some urgency, as today’s youth feel that the current system has failed them and they lack a sense of belonging to this country (especially if they can’t ever afford to buy their own home).
Hence why I think the Singapore model works so well for housing, no one could accuse Lee Kuan Yew of being a socialist and yet he recognised the importance of a sense of belonging and having a home to call one’s own and came up with a program that lowered the barrier to homeownership and greatly improved the quality of life of Singaporeans.
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I think this sums up the cause of the issue quite well.
In my view it’s up to the major parties to change their approach and put forward policies that deliver a sense of security on things like housing and employment if they wish to survive in the long term. The Coalition in particular especially runs a real risk of becoming a minor party in a generation’s time if they don’t change their messaging and approach.
I’d have to respectfully disagree on this one. It’s tough being young these days and ever more so post Covid especially with the dire lack of housing and broken social safety net. That delivery person in Thomastown is quite possibly living in that Uber at this point.
When I look back to the previous generation and compare it to now, for sure they had their fair share of difficulties. Interest rates of 10-20% would have been painful no matter how small the loan. There were recessions that drove unemployment to painful highs.
But there were a lot more measures in place back then to help ease the pain- unemployment benefits were more sufficient to cope with the cost of living and public housing was an option for the average person and not just those who meet certain criteria.
Having said that, it’s not just young people affected by these issues, this is a crisis affecting all ages but young people are disproportionately impacted as it is the majority of the cohort that is struggling.
Since then we’ve regressed back to something akin to the 1880s/1890s and 1920s/1930s, with so many people homeless or in insecure housing.
This is a problem that does not require anything as drastic as Soviet or Chinese style socialism to solve- that would result in an even worse situation as we’ve seen countless times in history- but the current neoliberal model of capitalism in place today is now a proven failure and as discredited. We need to look at what worked in the past to resolve similar situations.
Education is sorely lacking in this department, certainly at a high school level the Soviet Union/Eastern Bloc was a topic that barely got a mention at all in my experience (that was 10-15 years ago but I doubt it’s changed much).
I’d say it’s not a minority in Melbourne these days, it’s become pretty mainstream and ever growing. Even in regional areas this has grown significantly in the past 5 years.
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For some, that’s a feature and not a bug. A vocal section of overly online communists seem to think the rich and super-rich deserve all the pain and trauma they can get.
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Last I checked Labor holds Higgins and the Greens hold Prahran. Not exactly radical areas. The party and movement that’s going backwards is the increasingly alt right/reactive/populist Liberal party.
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You’re full of generalisations. Just need to point out these are your opinions and not facts.
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I was half expecting a decent post to reply to , I’ll post my thoughts.
What you describe mul, is nothing new infact it happens in every generation and every country. I am not sure you can single gate a specific race in terms of demos. There are different multicultural workers here in australia who may not always a gree with greens, labor or Liberal policies.
Not sure where you are getting the left junta controlling Victorian Labor from? I admit i may be limited in my political knowledge of the Victorian governments, all I know is what you are suggesting is debatable.
There are there different different types of classes and you seem to neglect one of the important ones - the poor, who are still paying for the policies of the previous liberal governments that harash social security policies. The tax breaks have come to to the rich people and agencies who have the liberal party in their pocket (e.g Scott Morrison’s tenure of government) , these kinds of governments work against the working class and the poor. They don’t help. While we get taxed , the majority of the rich people get tax-free brackets. (Or pay less, whichever you want to call it)
This is based on my experience and are of course opinion.
If you have not experienced hardship or don’t have compassion then your generalizations are quite offensive to those who have.
What the f are you going on about?
You’re not participating in conversations here. You’re just rambling. Do we need a daily lecture on your brain farts?
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Peter Fitzsimons has thrown his support behind PM Anthony Albanese’s suggestion that the federal parliamentary terms be increased from three to four years, putting them inline with state and territory parliaments.
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Another referendum? I think the government has better ways it could be spending that money
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Plus, if LNP and Greens don’t support it, the proposal will be dead well before it is put to a referendum.
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Critics of four-year terms say governments could become less accountable to voters if they remain in power for longer.
My solution to this would be to stagger the Senate term to be two years apart from each House election.
Think the idea is a non starter at the moment though with no real appetite for referendums at the Voice and likely opposition from the Coalition and Greens.
Yeah, why not - while we’re at it, lets have multiples - im sure there are other things we can waste time and money to campaign on 
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