The Debate

Introducing: The Debate

Sometimes we don’t agree with things within a topic and it escalates into an argument (debate), Debates are a good way to get your point across and to also hear the opposing opinion. But a debate in a topic can be distracting, ruin the flow of the discussion and can get off topic. So now let me introduce “The Debate” topic, if you think your debate is getting out of hand, start your debate hear so people who want to hear it can view it appropriately.

Discuss anything from Trump VS Hillary to Tomato sause VS BBQ sauce. Enjoy :slight_smile:

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@Firetorch, maybe this is a good place for your arguments, as sometimes I want to hear more of your views

I thought Nine had renamed Karl’s The Verdict program to The Debate, when I saw the post.

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Ketchup

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Before 9/11 President Bush was briefed on the rise of Al-Qaeda and their goal for a large scale terror attack on the United States. There were very limited, if any measures put in place to prevent such an attack.
Now, Trump bans, for a short period of time, refugees from certain areas. These areas are terrorist hot-spots. No matter what you say, this reduces the risk of a terrorist attack in the United States. Who knows, maybe he was advised to be wary of people coming from these areas - which is more than likely. As a result he has put in place measures to reduce the risk of an attack and terrorism.
Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.

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His general attitude is bad, his campaign was full of lies and he peddled the racist crap rumours against Obama, so it’s understandable when he does something like this it will be viewed with suspicion (that it’s not sbout security but playing to the racist element of the Republican party/supporters).
He’s damned himself. He has no one else to blame.

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His doing what he said he would do, he got elected and is now living up to his promises. Everyone always complaining that politicians don’t live up to their campaign promises …

Completely agree, that’s what I like about Trump, he isn’t a politician, so he doesn’t have to be formal and so what. He just says and acts the way he sees it

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That’s a different topic. I stand by my reply to your earlier post; Trump has rolled in the mud to get the job & he’s forfeited (by his own actions before 20 January) thel 'honeymoon" period a new president/government typically gets.

I know what you are saying but he isn’t doing anything he said he wouldn’t do.
And I’m not sure honeymoon periods really matter, particuarly in the US, when an election is 4 years away. Being the leader isn’t about being liked, it’s about fulfilling promises you were voted in for and making tough decisions, both of which he is doing.

Trump said he would have Hillary investigated, but immediately after he won the election he backed down from that promise. Broken promise number 1 was within a day.

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I thought maybe the left would be cheering about that.
He did say in his ABC interview that he hopes that it is the end of discussion about her and her emails amongst other dodgy things she has done but didn’t rule it out.

You’ve changed the subject.
On the original point the Washington Post has reported his ban on majority Muslim countries excludes countries where his companies do business including radicalisation/terrorism hotspots, e.g. Saudi Arabia (where 15 of the 19 terrorists involved in the September 11, 2001 attacks on the USA came from).
So it seems this ban isn’t purely about security.

On your 2nd topic, just because he said he’s going to commit crimes (like torture) doesn’t change the fact they are a crime.
He said (multiple times) he’d release his tax returns, but after inauguration now he won’t.
He said his investigators had found interesting proof Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii but only just before this election he finally years later admitted he was wrong.
He ripped off people who built his buildings, using bankruptcy laws to avoid paying them while paying himself how much? How did he run a casino into the ground, somewhere people come, empty their pockets & leave?
Some ‘successful’ businessman!
He’s at least as big a liar as any politician before him (& by definition he is a politician).

I’m not going to jump to conclusions considering we don’t receive the same security briefings that he does so we do not know why some countries were chosen over others. What I do know is that the 9-11 attacks were over 15 years ago and terrorism and terrorist have changed. Al-Qaeda is no longer the biggest threat in terms of Islamic extremists terrorist organisations - ISIS is, and their supporters and biggest threats to the USA are from the countries being banned (for 90 days or whatever it is).

In terms of tax returns, does anybody really care other than the left and the people trying to bring him down? He went all campaign without releasing them and he won the election - that clearly shows how disinterested people are about that. And before you mention the popular vote - the system is the electoral collage NOT the popular vote and essentially what California which is a very left leaning state thinks.

Torture works. Don’t care if it’s a crime - to people that chop off people’s heads because they don’t share the same religious beliefs or want to join a terrorist organisation and drown them in cages then send the videos to the families - I would be more than happy to torture them myself.

Have a read about the birthir topic, you will find Hillary Clinton and her 2008 democratic primary campaign team began the discussions about it and even had investigators looking into it. Also a clip of when she was asked about it in 08 on 60 minutes and did not say he wasn’t a Muslim or born in the USA.

And he turned $1million into billions. But I don’t really care about his business - I am and most people are interested in his policy and how he will make America, and the world, a better place.

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Assuming he’s now bothering with them; as President-elect he wasn’t interested, plus he’s rubbished what the CIA have said.

True, but Saudi Arabia is still the source of the funding for extremist Islam, in particular the ‘schools’, and the announcement was about ‘majority Muslim countries’ as if that was the sole criterion, but they excluded UAE, Saudi Arabia and others where Trump companies have business…very odd.

Tax returns: He lied about them. Another promise he failed to keep; the point is he doesn’t always do what he promises to.

And don’t get me started on how undemocratic the electoral college is (or the number of US senators each state has; so much for ‘one man, one vote’).

Torture does NOT work. People being tortured tell you - true or not - whatever they think will get you to stop.
I know this is a media forum but just because you saw it in “24” doesn’t make it real.
And ISIL, etc. are criminals but I don’t expect democracies to behave the same way. The USA should be leading the way up not down into the gutter and below.
Funny you mention not sharing religious beliefs, isn’t that what the anti-Islam immigration policy is? (By the way, I’m not religious, I think all religions are wrong, there is nothing after this life and it’s just a way to oppress people [be good & suffer quietly now & you’ll be rewarded after your death, or else you’ll suffer for eternity! What nonsense.])

Trump made up the claim that Clinton started the birther nonsense. She didn’t. He didn’t either but he jumped on the bandwagon and promoted himself using it while trying to delegitimise Obama, and now he & his people complain others are trying to delegitimise him!
Also there’s a huge difference between not fully refuting each element of a lie against your (then) political opponent and joining in on the huge lies.

(Oh you might want to look at the numbers again, and remember to adjust for inflation, for many years; he’s the oldest person ever elected US president.)

I am also more concerned about his policies (I mentioned business as many people seem to think that makes a good politician but in business he’s a liar, a crook, and incompetent).
I’m worried he’ll make the world worse. He is not interested in making the world a better place. (Whatever gave you the idea he was?) He’s clearly expressed self interest; basically whatever he thinks will work for the USA only and screw everybody else. (So maybe make the world better for him/USA but not for the rest of us?)

If US politics didn’t impact the world I and many other people wouldn’t be as interested in whatever stupidity is going on there.

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