Sydney vs Melbourne rivalry

Why do you like Brisbane then? Apart from a few unused tunnels, Brisbane’s road network is an absolute spaghetti heap.

I didn’t leave the city - probably helped.

Ah right, did you visit Southbank at least?

yes, and New Farm but not far out.

Fixed that for you.

I’m the most blatant Melbournian here, but this is a very interesting read on the merit of such a title
https://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2015/08/19/is-being-the-worlds-most-liveable-city-such-a-big-deal/

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Thanks, probably a fair correction :sweat_smile: I did a cross-city car commute for 13 years and there was never a day I’d think ‘how good is our freeway system?’. Especially when works done to ease congestion would actually produce more when completed. Now I’m a public transport commuter and while that isn’t a perfect system (as i write this I’m on a tram that’s been inexplicably delayed going in a straight line) it’s an awful lot less stressful/frustrating/expensive than driving.

End of rant

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Well the traffic today (persistent rain all day) pretty much did see that :angry:

“Peak every hour” LOL

Driving in Sydney is awful, but I drove in Melbourne and despite the very good roads, I just thought that the drivers were absolute psychos. Especially in the CBD.

Driver courtesy was the worst. I had my indicator on in gridlocked or very slow moving traffic and most people were obviously willing to swap paint before they let me change lanes in front of them.

Hook turns - I am certain that I did them properly, yet others were cutting around me while I waited for the green light, with some dickhead tradie almost driving into the path of a tram! Jesus wept.

Public transport in the inner city section of Melbourne during peak is very good because of the tram priority and fairways, and railways operating above or below grade. Everywhere else, the car is obviously going to be the first choice for most.

From my experience, the train network isn’t very good in Melbourne. It’s slow, got billions of level crossings everywhere, and the infrastructure appears to be decaying due to lack of investment. The low rate of usage is probably due to the road network being great at handling a lot of traffic, while the rail network hasn’t had any real investment in it for the past 60 years.

Whereas in Sydney, the (relatively) high rate of train usage is probably due to the freeways being congested or never built at all, resulting in the train often being considerably faster than the car. There’s a similar lack of investment in new rail infrastructure, but there’s a degree of quality in maintenance that seems to be lacking in Melbourne.

Opal wipes Myki like a dirty arse.

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[quote=“mubd, post:28, topic:1721”]
Driver courtesy was the worst. I had my indicator on in gridlocked or very slow moving traffic and most people were obviously willing to swap paint before they let me change lanes in front of them.[/quote]

Melbourne drivers are very rude and impatient. And I say this as a Melburnian. My experience is the same in that drivers will never give way to change lanes or anything else. And they can be very unforgiving.

[quote]
From my experience, the train network isn’t very good in Melbourne. It’s slow, got billions of level crossings everywhere, and the infrastructure appears to be decaying due to lack of investment. The low rate of usage is probably due to the road network being great at handling a lot of traffic, while the rail network hasn’t had any real investment in it for the past 60 years.[/quote]

I’m not sure that the road network is great at handling a lot of traffic. It could be worse I suppose, but it is far from perfect. All it takes is one significant freeway incident and half the city is held to ransom. I would say though that construction of Citylink was absolutely essential. It’s a painful freeway, always congested and expensive to use but I think Melbourne would have been much worse off had it not been built at all.

I wouldn’t say there is a low rate of usage on PT as such. Patronage is reported to be on the increase and the all-night service has been received positively. And a list of Level Crossings are in the process now of being removed although their presence is probably more a hindrance to road users than train users… but the removal of level crossings may lead to a higher frequency of train services eventually.

I’ve been using myki since day one though as a frequent user only in recent times. I can’t say I’ve encountered any issues with it.

Well, that’s the same in most cities, isn’t it. The difference is that Melbourne’s roads can simply move vastly more traffic than Sydney’s roads - no doubt about it.

Something I did notice when driving in Melbourne was the very high speed limits. The first one was when I was driving in on the Princes Highway/Freeway towards Melbourne for the first time. There was a section with at-grade intersections, shitloads of traffic, and a speed limit of 110km/h, which seemed odd. Another time, I was driving through a suburban centre, one where I expected a speed limit of 50 or 60, and I looked up and noticed that the speed limits around the area were 70km/h and 80km/h, and I was like ‘wtf?’ Quite ironic considering Victoria’s reputation for pumping out the gory TV commercials about speeding.

I was just speaking in relative terms. It’s clear that PT is on the rise in Melbourne, but there certainly were some historically low rates of use only 20 years ago, and the immense growth in PT is probably because roads have become saturated with traffic to the point where people just don’t want to drive anymore. That’s the reason behind why I think Melbourne’s rail infrastructure is lagging behind Sydney’s, at least for now.

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Well, it’s 1-all between and Sydney and Melbourne after this weekends Grand Finals in the AFL and NRL.

And it was so uncannily similar!

Each city was represented in both games and in the “local” code, they were each represented by suburban teams (Bulldogs and Sharks) that had so little success for so long, and were the underdogs up against very successsful interstate powerhouses (Swans and Storm) who had each been in several grand finals over the past decade that were favourites to win.

And both of the underdog teams won in close games!!

Well done to both Bulldogs and Sharks, and may their teams and long suffering supporters both long savour the moment!!

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The big difference that many won’t talk about is event transport. Sydney’s running events like the City2Surf and the Sydney Running Festival (Blackmore’s Marathon) include free transport to the start and from the finish until about mid afternoon. The Melbourne Marathon this weekend won’t unless you happen to be in the free Tram Zone, even though all night services will make it easier for those staying in the 'Burbs to make it (I’m staying CBD this year). In fact before this year (All Nighters were introduced later than the 2015 MM) it was basically Night Rider bus, cab or hope someone is kind enough to give you a ride if you wanted to make it in time for the 7AM start to the Marathon which has the biggest field and has run longer (I believe all 8 remaining are gunning for 39 finishes from 39 starts) of all Australian marathons (but isn’t a Gold Standard IAAF event which Sydney and Gold Coast are, they attract the elite athletes with Melbourne often too close to Berlin, the fastest marathon course in the world, and even Sydney being a month apart to attract big internationals. To attain IAAF Gold Status the field needs to have a certain number of elite internationals and be either live on TV or streamed as the Gold Coast is).

In terms of atmosphere and courses, I find that running in Melbourne you get more of a crowd on the route (many line Beaconsfield Parade and all through St.Kilda) where Sydney’s route generally goes inner city and into places that don’t lend itself to a crowd until you get to Circular Quay. Sydney has the Harbour Bridge at the start (run a km from Milson’s Point, turn around then onto the Bridge) and the finish at the Opera House which can be rather narrow and when in a pack doesn’t lend itself to a sprint finish. Melbourne starts virtually outside Rod Laver Arena (just down Batman Avenue), passes Federation Square/Flinders St Station TWICE (out in the first 2km, back passing 40km), goes around the GP track in the opposite direction save for pit lane (where the first of 3 personal drinks tables are located. Main difference between the cities here is that Sydney’s is for Elites and Preferred Starters only, Melbourne’s is Free to All, I use the second station heading towards the Elwood Turn), and usually finishes inside the MCG. Biggest issue for both is traffic management. Sydney has the half marathon starting before but a lot of tail enders (usually first timers who are just about to collapse as those who’ve gone twice as far are steaming past) tend to be close to the finishing marathoners at Circular Quay. In Melbourne the half starts an hour later, but the marathoners often catch a lot of the field heading through Southbank towards the Shrine of Remembrance. (By contrast Gold Coast has their half starting 90 minutes before the full, and their course is in the opposite direction to where the full marathon field goes. Very rare to catch anyone doing the half when finishing the full). Melbourne when it started used to be from Frankston to Melbourne, heaven forbid how that could be done now?!

Mind you I don’t feel as creeped out in Flinders Street or Spencer Street (Southern Cross) stations than I sometimes do at Central in Sydney…

Even Sydneysiders would agree that Melbourne is more supportive of sporting events than they are.

Franga to Melbourne CBD would be approximately the required distance for a full marathon,would it not? (42.1 km). Google Maps does say 55 km, but takes the geographically indirect route via the Monash.

I think there’s so much more on offer/to do in Melbourne’s CBD…

I was walking down Swanston St after Melbourne Central & then caught a tram down Bourke St to work.

Just soooooo many people and stores, etc in all dorections.

Very vibrant and entertaining.

Sydney has the “soooo many people” bit covered, that’s for sure. Trams alone make things more interesting in Melbourne’s CBD, along with the hapless New South Welshmen who fall foul of the hook turn rule :).

On a more serious note, I’ll take country Victoria or NSW over the CBD of either city any day. Melbourne has better preserved its heritage which I admire: “ghost signs” in the Sydney CBD and inner ring are very hard to find, compared with their ubiquity in the cultural capital.

I was also getting at Melbourne’s ‘fashion’ status as well, of which the CBD and inner-city is littered with.

H&M, Uniqlo, Bourke Street Mall, MYER HQ, Target Centra & hundreds more fashion house/labels, just to name a few…

NB/
Newly re-developed $600m “Chaddy” opened-up yesterday, Australia’s “fashion capital”.

From Fairfax:

Sydney is considered one of the best cities in the world, but the perception does not match up with the reality, according to a new study.

London was named the best perceived city in the world ahead of New York and Paris, in the global report that examines the perception of major cities versus the reality.

While Sydney came close to the top of the list at no.5 for “best perceived” cities, Australia’s largest city dropped to no.10 when it came to assessing what it is really like.

Read more: http://www.traveller.com.au/worlds-bestperceived-cities-versus-the-reality-revealed-in-new-pwc-report-gs9xn8

Not sure if this fits into the rivalry category but a number of nice things said about Sydney in coverage of the Invictus Games being awarded to the city for 2018.

And the winner is

In another big win for the harbour city, royal patron Prince Harry has announced the increasingly prestigious Invictus Games will be held here in 2018.

Prince Harry brings his Invictus Games to Sydney

Sydney has been announced as the next host city for Prince Harry’s Invictus Games, an international sporting event for injured veterans.

The prince and the games he founded will come to Sydney in October 2018, with events to be held around the harbour and Sydney Olympic Park.

As both are major news outlets based in and primarily focused on the Harbour City, it’s probably to be expected that The Daily Telegraph and The Sydney Morning Herald would say positive things about Sydney.

Anyway, I didn’t really know much about the Invictus Games before this coverage but I suppose the event will be a good thing for Sydney to have.

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