SEN (Radio)

I think the upset is directed at SEN for them highlighting the issues with the radio market more generally.

They’ve vacuumed up narrowcast stations - making many towns now just have two Horse Racing narrowcasters, when previously a non-english language or niche music format would supplement radio choice in a market, or at the very least a religious narrowcaster would provide something that isn’t just for the sake of boosting gambling revenues.

Now they are doing the same in a number of metro areas - in Brisbane they are already well underserved for choice in commercial radio for the number of listeners, yet they’ll be losing what has even recently been the number 1 radio station.

In a sensible regulatory market, new frequencies would be made available as a city like Brisbane grew, meaning it was viable for a station to serve a small niche like sports talk, without 10% of listeners losing their station.

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I think there’s a few factors behind the dislike for SEN on here (as @Laoma has mentioned):

  1. Buying up of popular legacy licences that had a popular older-skewing music format. SEN in this case is the lightning rod for what is a greater frustration with how poorly the market is regulated and how much the current radio model is designed for the sole purpose of protecting the interests of commercial radio stations at the expense of listeners.
  2. Craig Hutchison (station owner) is a polarising figure who has quite the fair share of critics, especially after getting rid of a number of popular presenters when he first bought SEN Melbourne
  3. In the case of Sydney and Brisbane, a general dislike of anything perceived to be Victorian or AFL related
  4. Some of the programming outside of live sports coverage can be repetitive and sometimes dull as dishwater, as is most of the content on SEN Track
  5. The amount of ads and sponsor shoutouts they put on anything they cover, sometimes it’s almost American levels of commercial saturation and usually for the same few companies

As far as I’m concerned, my main issue with SEN is that there are so many simple little things they could do to improve the listening experience:

  1. Prioritise live sport above everything else- with the cricket in Pakistan, while they generally did a good job of coverage, the coverage didn’t start until 6pm each night as they favoured their own talk shows. Live cricket is one of the best things they’ve done, especially with the ABC in recent years cutting back and no longer covering a lot of Australia’s overseas tours.
  2. Re-designing their app to bring more prominence to live sport (have them as a carousel when you open up the app), and enabling smart speaker, Chromecast Audio and Android Auto compatibility.
  3. Extending their NZ rights of EPL to Australia as well (I don’t believe anyone else has the rights to these since MSR folded?)
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Yes when I tuned in (outside of live sport), this is how I feel. ABC grandstand on digital can have more interesting shows, some random test match from 1988 ie a highlights package. ( For example is more interesting than a relay of SEN Track)

Very well put @captaincupcake I totally agree with this comment.

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Does anybody expect SEN to have 4KQ remain on DAB+ only like with 2CH?

They could share playlists.

Yeah well described by all here. I loved SEN when I lived in Melbourne, but I guess that would be described as the ‘original’ incarnation, before Hutchy and the axing of a lot of loved presenters/shows. I don’t do a lot of radio online so I pretty much stopped listening when I moved north, but even now I don’t really recognise a lot of it when I visit Melbourne.

I also agree the anger extended at SEN extending its reach is partially misguided due to the stations it has replaced. Losing 2CH and 4KQ, two music stations with great histories, to a sports talk station from Melbourne is a big blow. It wasn’t so much when 3AK (another talk station) converted to SEN in the early days.

I personally would have loved Hutchy to be able to prove that 100% sports talk was in fact a narrowcast format and be able to expand SEN in that way (rather than a second racing broadcaster), and then find a way to keep the successful music formats alive as well.

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No I don’t think it will happen given ARN has a presences in Brisbane. I believe it would be part of the fine print that SEN can’t compete with a similar format. SEN when they bought 2CH, they took over the staff as well, in this case my understanding they didn’t, just the licence.

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There’s been some really good conversation here this afternoon. Lots of reasonable views.

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I quite like SEN in sydney and listen every day but In saying that I only listen to Matt White for an hour or 2 and Run home with Joel and Fletch which I listen to everyday in full. I also like Captains run and Morning glory.

I’m a huge fan of sport especially rugby league but if you aren’t a passionate follower of the sport I can understand why you’d lose interest very quickly.

I can’t understand why they don’t advertise on fox, I’d be pumping up the station massively and you could grow your audience massively especially with the flagship shows.

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100%. They need some targeted marketing.

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You wonder if when they become relatively national they might start doing promoting a bit harder? Having stations in Sydney and now Brisbane will mean they can target league fans, it would increase the value of promoting themselves say on Fox League during broadcasts. There is already overlap given Andrew Voss and Greg Alexander work for both

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And social media too. Targeting insta pages of sports fans linking to app download.

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They have started marketing in that space now which is good. They direct a lot of listeners to the app which I think is a good move if you are looking to get sports fans under 40 who may listen.

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@captaincupcake summed it up pretty well, in the first 5 points, though SEN isn’t just disliked in here, it’s not generally liked across the radio industry & going by ratings nor the general listeners outside of Melbourne.

2KY Sydney was probably the first commercial station to be more or less a sports station, back in the day, before it narrowed it’s programming to horse racing after being bought by TABCorp/Sky Racing & it did reasonably well, programming to the local market (Sydney).

In NSW & probably QLD, TABCorp/Sky racing was the original narrowcast racing channel & has plenty of backing behind it, I used to know a guy (now deceased) who used to own & race horses (thoroughbreds) & his radios would be locked onto the Sky Racing radio channel all around the stables & house, I knew another guy who owned & raced horses (Trotters) & he was the same.
Horse Racing is a big industry, not just owners, etc, but punters who listen, but to have a second narrowcast racing network in SEN track in the same areas is just pointless (given some areas have multiple God squad stations narrowcasting, also pointless).

As for general sports, Sydney & Brisbane aren’t big sporting communities (interested in football & cricket) but not to the extent as in Melbourne, & most of the stuff on SEN is still available on other stations (some who do it better), due to pre existing contracts before SEN moved into market, so SEN doesn’t rate.

In Sydney 2SM takes some SEN produced content, so you have the same thing on 2 stations in a market that’s not really interested, people not listening on 1 station is one thing, but nobody listening on 2 stations is not good, especially when one or both could be using the spectrum to cater to the market much better.

A sports station didn’t work in Sydney when Macquarie Radio tried it, SEN didn’t learn from that lesson have repeated it, (same will happen in Brisbane).

The Super Radio Network (BOG) gets bagged out for being cheap, but SEN is not much different, the listeners wouldn’t know, but SEN isn’t particularly liked in the industry for this reason. At least Bill has the money & risks his own investments in the SRN stations, from what I understand from others more in the know than me, the entire expanding SEN network is owned by non-bank “investors”, Hutchy has very little of his own money invested in the network & has very little risk if it fails. I have also heard, but have no reason to believe it’s not true, that at one stage not so long ago, Hutchy was hitting up all his friends & anyone he knew who had money, to throw it his way & invest in buying more stations/frequencies, to help expand the SEN/SEN Track network & this got some people offside.

SEN have big ideas & big plans that don’t really go anywhere too, for example, SEN Sydney on 1170 AM is licenced for 10kW with day/night switching, that SEN applied for a power increase after they took over 2CH, essentially all that needs to be done is program the transmitter controls to do this, but the transmitter hasn’t been touched since Nine Radio sold it & a tech who used to look after it, has said to me that they doubt anything will change & the transmitter power won’t ever go up to 10kW daytime from the 7.7kW it was put on by Nine Radio as 2CH, it’s a 12kW Nautel transmitter & is quite capable of 10kW, & so is the rest of the site, it’s just they can’t be bothered doing it.

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Well put @RFBurns. Besides the content of the shows the audio quality on 1170 AM feels a bit lacking the last time I tuned in on 1170 am. 2CH had a much better sound. I know it is just talk but to my ears 2GB/702 AM sounds a lot better. I posted at one stage the same show on 2SM sounds a lot better than 1170 SEN.

Should authorities set some basic standards for DAB and normal radio to make sure audio sounds decent? If they get the right to upgrade the power they need to do it, to improve the quality of the signal across Sydney. In my opinion having more radio stations who don’t worry about some basics to affects the long term viability of radio.

Even on DAB radio there should be standards of audio, content (ie no dead air for 1 month), error corrections to certain levels. To me radio in general needs lift their game a bit to ensure long term viability to differentiate them from Spotify or just another podcast. For example when the religion show is on SEN 1170 (on a Sunday night) and the cricket was on, given SEN Melbourne is on error 4A, the audio just drops out whilst driving around. I am not saying if you improve the power & audio processing the ratings will go up but at least basic standards should be kept.

Maybe we have our standards too high in this forum? This is not necessarily directed to SEN per say.

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Same in Melbourne. They’re deliberately cutting the audio response above about 5kHz. There used to be standards for audio quality that required a relatively flat response on AM stations from 50Hz to 10kHz. (From what I remember). Then it was reduced to 7kHz. So they’re not even making that.

Listening to the same show on 1116 and 3CS on 1134 are like night and day.

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They’ve had an “SENQ” stream on their app for months now (practically just 1170 plus their local breakfast which already plays on SEN Track)… I guess they already have the template for adding the frequency given the SENQ logo is practically the same as Track’s, only thinner.

I’m not sure what they’d plan to do with it though… I can see them putting a local Run Home on in drive but take 1170 during the day - it’s not as if Brisbane and Sydney’s topics are that different. [Probably one thing Macquarie didn’t admit to - that the rugby and AFL states are so different on that that a national program was useless.]

I still don’t see the rugby state fans as willing to go on an open line to vent like the AFL states do, but maybe I’m underestimating Queenslanders with league, especially around Origin time when the Maroons would be on everyone’s lips. Can’t see ratings being too different from 1170 in any case…

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Given how some of the big companies are branding themselves now, I’m not sure they even want to be differentiated anymore. :thinking:

It is kinda sad to see the decline of 2CH though, just from a historical perspective, but their decision has been to shove the “other” station onto their space (Melbourne’s in Sydney and vice versa) on top of SEN Track. We know that they aren’t in the music space, and 2CH would likely be dead entirely if they weren’t able to share resources with their Spirit 621 station in the bottom corner of WA. They obviously think there’s no point in stretching that commitment further with keeping 4KQ’s music alive and unless there is still some church-related restrictions on keeping 2CH’s format alive, I can’t see them lasting much longer either.

48 kbit should be… though not great, better than some of the ARN/SCA feeds, but if they’re putting it through the same processor as the talk stations (which I wouldn’t be surprised about)… no, that’s awful.

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Tony Kemp joins SENZ breakfast

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Well there you go, here I am thinking that the poor audio quality here on SEN SA, was due to it being on the 1629 frequency & only on 400w.

No I think you’re quite right. AFL is a religion of its own and no way will Queenslanders or NSW league fans emulate what happens with AFL.

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