Narrowcast and AM Narrowband Radio

Radio, Print, and Online Regional, Community and International Radio
1485

And word is Vision is looking to sell these licences as they have struck a deal to be on Digital Radio instead.

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1486

Which is scary… considering the material may be a little extreme at times

1488

3GL’s audio is very low compared with other stations of similar signal strength.

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1489

1950s (Presley, Holly et al, not the actual top 40 centre of musical gravity of that era which turns out through listening to airchecks of genuine top 40 stations of the era to have been Pat Boone, Perry Como et al) and 1960s and most 1970s stuff is now a narrowcast format as the demos are simply too old to be commercially viable.

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1490

Like the old days before they compressed, limited and clipped the crap out of it

The AM stereo nutters will be out next!

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1491

Oh it’s got to be in C-QUAM for old time sake :joy:

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1492

Definitely has to be in C-QUAM & I’ve heard it will be when they finish the transmitter site rebuild.

It’s funny though why the hate about AM Stereo, when you don’t get the same comments about FM stations being mono? :person_shrugging:

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1493

Why go to the bother/expense of AM Stereo though? The number of AM stereo tuners out there must be miniscule/almost zero?

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1494

Whatever happened to the proposed REBEL FM MW station in SE Qld that I thought was also proposed to be in AM stereo? :man_shrugging: Sorry I can’t recall the MW frequency, if was in standard MW band or x-band on a narrowcast freq, nor the location. Was the location Maryborough?

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1495

I enjoy WION in AM Stereo (thanks for the suggestion). I was listening to it the other day when the feeding tuner went off frequency for a bit…someone must have bumped it!

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1496

Hmm now you’ve got me thinking. Not sure if it was Maryborough, Bundaberg or Toowoomba… Thought it was Breeze too actually

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1497

What expense, there’s really none added these days, the studios are stereo, all equipment is stereo, depends but there’s transmitters made today that are AM stereo capable out of the factory for no extra expense.

There was never, billions of AM Stereo tuners out there, but you’d probably be surprised at the number that still exist, it’s just outside of places like these forums or C-QUAM enthusiasts chatter, people don’t mention it, because mostly they can’t receive it as it’s not transmitted.

Yeah I love listening to WION, it sounds great, they contract one of the best AM Stereo Engineers in the world to set it up & maintain it, wish I could get work to send me over to the USA to learn from him, I mightn’t be able to put the knowledge into much practise here, but would be great to have that knowledge.

The receiver doesn’t go off frequency, that’s when they do the day/night power switching & the transmitter goes off briefly. Though I have heard it do it more than just the switching a few times, the online stream off air tuner is in the studio & the transmitter is out the back yard, so the signal doesn’t have to travel far.

For those who might be interested, read their FAQ’s page on the techy stuff & why do they broadcast in AM Stereo, because they can, because it contributes to a higher quality sound on ANY AM radio you use (their words).
https://i1430.com/faqs-coverage-and-radio-101/

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1498

Yes, that makes sense, I think it was just after 1800 their time when it did it.

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1499

Fair enough. I was of the impression (from comments around here years ago i admit) that there was additional costs in AM Stereo mostly in terms of running the output via landlines to the transmitter where the cost was literally double the cost of running mono output which is why some stations just stopped doing AM Stereo as budgets shrinked and there was little discernible market for it. But again this was based on comments from around here many years ago. Technology and costs may have changed a lot since then.

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1500

1620 Toowoomba

Nah most sites either use 850mhz STL which you can throw a stereo generator on like used for FM Stereo or like 4WK does use a Tieline in Stereo Pair mode and not only use it to fed the FM translators in stereo but also the C-QUAM equiped BE TX

On that note most mid to high tier Nautel comes with C-QUAM built in

There is quite a few ABC Nautel out there that all they need is Stereo audio and they could be C-QUAM it makes me sad sometimes :frowning:

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1501

Yes, technologies have changed a lot since even 5-10 years ago, links to transmitter sites are now mostly digital CODECS via fibre.

Back in the early days & it’s persisted but is & always has been a myth, that AM Stereo reduces the coverage area over AM mono, that’s not true as the Mono & Stereo components of C-QUAM are separate & don’t depend on one another, as for FM stereo, yes the coverage area of the stereo is less than what it would be if it was FM mono only, also the Stereo component is 100% related to the mono component, if you lose a stereo channel, the Mono volume will be lower & the modulation will be reduced also.

Just for an example, Nine Radio Sydney have 6 separate studio to transmitter links each for 2UE & 2GB, which includes 4 fibre links, 1 x Optus, 1 x TPG, 1 x Telstra & 1 x NBN for each station, all of which are digital CODECS of stereo audio, the 2UE main transmitter is AM Stereo capable (newish Nautel NX series), the head engineer (ex-SCA), has thought about putting it back in AM Stereo & would like to, but they need a working AM Stereo Modulation monitor.

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1502

I’d have to go ahead and disgree… from my visits to TX site and ive been to a lot, most stations use 850mhz STL

I believe the use of STL tech is this

  1. 850mhz Composite
  2. Microwave using G.703 to AES/Analogue
  3. NBN IP delivery with codecs (Tieline, Comrex etc)
  4. Telstra DVN2 IP service using AoIP

The big mover and will become a bigger thing is MicroMPX

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1503

Well it depends where you are, in the bigger cities, there’s limited frequencies left for everyone to have an 850MHz STL’s since they reduced the band, also in lots of places now the studios don’t have LOS to the transmitter site.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen any Microwave using G.703 links, but then I don’t go to any 50 year old or remote TX sites, that haven’t been updated in the last 20 years.

NBN IP using codecs is what digital & in many places fibre?
Telstra DVN2 using AoIP, is again what, digital & in many places fibre.

Telstra DVN2 links via microwave are only used if it’s cost prohibitive to run a fibre & even then it’s usually only the very last short hop from a DVN transmission point to the transmitter site.

Links other than fibre are only used where the site is remote enough to make fibre install/use cost prohibitive or physically impossible to install.

TPG are still running microwave links as a part of the old Soul Pattinson Telecoms network, but even then fibre is preferred if possible.

The old DDA network is gone & those microwave links have been replaced by Telstra DVN2 or something else with fibre preferred first option.

So exactly what are you disagreeing with me about, as most of what you’ve said are digital codec links over first preference fibre?

MicroMPX is a digital link over (first preference) fibre, we have a Micro MPX link between buildings at Artarmon over a fibre, been running it for years, also most of the Telos/Omnia MPX or xNodes are digital links over first choice if possible fibre link.

4G & 5G links are very common now using a digital codec (Tieline or Barix box).

If anything 850MHz composite STL they certainly wouldn’t be used as the No.1 link for anything not regional/remote & I don’t mean Newcastle/Gold Coast/Illawarra types of regional unless as a backup link or community station who have no money & the link is legacy, even then a lot of the remaining 850MHz links are probably digital using a Mosely or similar encoder.

I do know there are quite a lot of microwave STL’s still in use around the country but not at 850MHz more so up in the GHz links frequencies but 850MHz composite/analogue certainly wouldn’t be the No.1 STL used around the country, so we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that.

In the metro areas, links would most likely be:

  1. Fibre either a Vocus, TPG (Pipe Networks), Optus, Telstra private link or Telstra DVN2 or NBN Enterprise Ethernet or just plain FTTP business grade connection.

  2. Microwave but not 850MHz Composite a Digital GHz link, you could include a Telstra DVN2 link here if pushed, but their first choice of connection is Fibre.

  3. NBN FTTN or HFC if Fibre/FTTP isn’t available

  4. 4G or 5G mobile networks link connected to a Telos xNode, Tieline, ZIP/One, Barix Box digital codec IP type encoder/decoder.

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1504

Thats a bold statement considering a quick check of the ACMA database shows 511 x 850mhz STL licenses

Admittedly some of these may not be in operation

The fact there is 511 licenses proves that the 850Mhz STL is still the dominant transport method.

even if we said half of them are not in operation it still out numbers any other method

Take Perth for example: only SCA, ARN, NOVA all use Microwave and Fibre (Last time I looked SCA they had G.703 with IRT frames (hint: they arent a 50 year old site)

  • Curtin, Noongar, RTR, Sonshine, 6EBA, Armadale Radio, Fremantle Radio all use 850mhz STL
  • Tasmania, all of the old Grants stations all use 850mhz except for 7HO
  • Country SA.. ALL Grant stations 850mhz STL
  • Brisbane Main path: 4ZZZ, 4BC, 4BH

Im going to agree to disagree to your disgreement for now:slight_smile:

However you will end up being right, the 850Mhz STL band will end up for auction.. only a matter of time!

1505

Both commercial networks in Hobart are still using G.703 over microwave. Although I think 1 of the 2 now have IP as their primary path.

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