I think a lot of it also depends on which site each of the potential community radio stations are broadcasting from too.
The Hawkesbury Radio site is right at the top the escarpment, and is the highest of the sites, and gets the strongest signal out across the Hawkesbury. They are also licensed to broadcast from an antenna height of 30m according to ACMA.
Starter and the other aspirants are licenced to the lower site at Grass Karts, and only licenced to transmit from an antenna height of 10m from a smaller tower.
So Hawkesbury radio is always going to have the better coverage.
I wonder which site ACMA will licence the final Windsor licence too?
@TheChase said they are having a few issues with the signal which will get fixed over time, this potentially explains why they are weaker then the others outside their coverage area in the Hills Shire / Blacktown LGAās.
Just to assist you with the correct specs here guys, Harmony FM & Hawkesbury radio are on the same tower on Burralow Rd, Kurrajong Heights. Harmony is at 30 metres Hawkesbury radio at 27 metres. The others are at the grass cutting, unfortunately on the grass cutting everyone knows you cannot cover the Hawkesbury from there especially at 10 metres. This site is used purely for LPONS. The requirement for a five-year licence is full coverage of the Windsor RA1.
I remember back in the day with the 89.7 Frequency broadcasting from Windsor (30m asl) 40 watts and that was licenced to service the whole of the Hawkesbury LGA, not sure if it did though.
Back in the days when local radio stations were listed in the street directory, I wondered what this mysterious 2VTR station was. I tried- in vain- to receive it from Oatley, but all I could get was 2RES.
Little did I know the mystery would be cleared up soon enoughā¦and I ended up as a guest on the station many a time.
I understand the technical specs on the various TBCLs, antenna heights, etc but Line of sight is LOS, it doesnāt matter if you are at 10m above ground level at Kurrajong Heights or 30m above ground at Kurrajong Heights, the signal would not vary all that much into the Hawkesbury and Sydney Basin based on antenna height above ground level alone, might give you a little fresnel zone advantage but we are talking less than 1db.
So in addition to Antenna height, Iād also be looking at the Antenna system being used, the polarisation and output power of the transmitter, cable losses, etc.
The pattern the ACMA have in the LAP for Windsor (RA1) would be almost impossible to build an antenna for, I highly doubt that the specs on the licence are exactly what has been implemented by the various groups.
My guess is that they are all using omni directional antennas and turning the transmitter power up until they think they have 50 watts ERP toward Sydney (90 to 180 degrees). While on the surface, the 89.9 Windsor RA1 frequency looks like a flame thrower with itās 750w Max ERP toward Bilpin (lots of trees out that way) and positioned on one of Sydneyās best TX sites being Kurrajong Heights (600m asl) and views to the city, but unfortunately the ACMA have thrown a wet towel on the party by limited ERP toward Sydney to only 50 watts.
As far as I understand, none of the groups have the cash for a complex directional array to reproduce the desired radiation pattern listed on the ACMAās LAP. So itās quick and dirty, and that means a good old fashioned omni directional antenna system - maybe vertical only or could even be mixed polarisation if they wanna get fancy. Nothing wrong with it, but like anything in life, itās a compromise.
If you can receive any of the groups in and around Sydney / Parramatta on 89.9, then Iād be under the assumption they are exceeding the 50 watt ERP toward the city and therefore exceeding their licence conditions.
Please do not rely on the info I have provided here (they are the ramblings of a retired RF engineer) and please seek your own engineering advice before applying for a Temporary Community Broadcasting Licence.
I would ask you to check out the geographics for the Hawkesburyā¦100% a transmission from the grass cutting does not go up to Bilpin and beyond. Check it out for yourself next week, when these stations go to air, you say you were driving around Wednesday avo listening to starterās broadcast so check it out. Harmony is not omnidirectional and as a retired engineer then you would know it is spelt omnidirectional. You should not be commenting and saying stations have cranked up their transmitters and are acting illegal. We do not want to go into it any more but quite frankly it is obvious to us what is occurring here. Wish you luck in retirement.
That is correct the LPON site at the Grass Karts is severely obstructed to the west by the escarpment, you basically loose River fm as you go down the first hill to the west towards Pie in the Sky.
I have not been up there recently so cannot comment on the reception of the other TCBās from the Grass Karts site.
Hawkesbury Radio and Harmony being right up on top of the escarpment at Burralow Rd have a clear LOS to the west and make it all the way to Mount Tomah. I have had them as far west as Bell on the car radio.
Re the LPON 10m broadcast antenna, if this antenna is omnidirectional wouldnāt the broadcasters have to limit their ERP to 50W in all directions to comply with the TCBL, unless a new directional antenna has been mounted below the existing antenna specifically for the TCBL?
I also understand with the competition and tension among the competing parties I doubt any of them will disclose their broadcasting setup to us here.
Iām not claiming anyone is doing anything wrong or illegal, Iām just pointing out that 50 watts ERP toward Sydney isnāt enough to cover all of the Sydney basin. And while we are correcting spelling, Grass Cutting? Do they cut grass?
Having a look at the Axicom Tower on Burralow Rd, Kurrajong Heights, I was able to observe the following:
Harmony FM appear to have stacked array of 2 vertical polarised antennas.
Hawkesbury Radio appear to have a stacked array of 2 mixed polarised antennas.
While both are using omnidirectional antennas, I take technoās point, as the tower / mast would have an effect on the radiation pattern, thus no longer omni.
Excuse me you are totally wrong , it is quite obvious, you have no idea what you are talking about, I did not want to say thisā¦ Harmony does not have a stacked array of antennae. We have spaced and mounted phased dipoles with a null toward the city (that is all we will say and quite legal). We will finish this conversation now as we are talking to someone who does not understand what they are talking about. If you are a supporter of starter FM relay this messageā¦ Their service has
substantial over-deviation that results primarily in disturbing sibilant
distortion (caused by āclippingā of high audio frequencies in receivers. You said two posts ago, you do not want to comment, well please donāt comment. We have better things to do than listen to a person who does not know what they are talking about. Yes you did say people are acting illegally, you said thisā¦āIf you can receive any of the groups in and around Sydney / Parramatta on 89.9, then Iād be under the assumption they are exceeding the 50 watt ERP toward the city and therefore exceeding their licence conditionsā. Any person who is in the know would understand 50W can easily travel to Parramatta. OH nearly forgot, cutting the grass maybe a better option during your retirement. Good luck.
I believe @Sarafm was just trying to have a neutral discussion about specification, and from the way you are speaking and the pro Harmony FM speech, it seems that you are aligned with them, and in the past people who have joined this forum and been members of harmony have been extremely rude and unhelpful to this community.
I would advise that if you are the same person as the one who created all the accounts before and abused people, then to please stop it does not make your station look very good, and if your working with them, then I suggest you look at the calibre of people who work there.
Gents, I donāt have a dog in this fight, Iām an interested local enjoying the diversity of programming on 89.9. I have a keen interest in RF technology and what an opportunity this is!
Seven different operators with 7 different transmitters and 7 different antenna systems. When has this ever happened in the past, when will it ever happen again? So Iām soaking it all up.
From purely a research perspective, what a time to be alive!!!
So I apologise to any of the groups for the focus on their technical specs, but I love to opportunity to analyse what each group is doing in this space.
Hey, go back read your comments, you posted accusations not meā It does not matter who we are aligned with we are aligned with many stations. We know who you are aligned with it is obvious and all you do is accuse stations of turning up their transmitters. I find the people in the station you raved on about good hard working people doing a great job for the community. You should worry about your broadcasting not others.
100% as an avid watcher of radio around Australia, I do find all this very interesting.
And I can see The ACMAās plan working as two of the TCBLs have already merged.
Hawkesbury Radio and Hawkesbury Gold have come together to form Hawk FM.
From the Hawkesbury Radio website:
We are restructuring our station in quite a major way. The first step is to merge some of our activities with Hawkesbury Gold, another TCBL Holder (Temporary Community Broadcasting Licence) in the Hawkesbury.
Over the past few weeks the two stations have been working to cooperate in numerous ways. We are now sharing programming resources, technical resources, people between us.
As of 6 December, Hawkesbury Radio 89.9FM and Hawkesbury Gold 89.9FM will both be known as HawkFM. New logos and other marketing materials will appear soon. Some new identity sound clips are already playing on the station. All your favourite music, news, traffic updates and the latest information on the Hawkesbury area will be found on our FM 89.9 transmissions and our 24/7 streaming on our multiple streams.
HawkFM are excited about the future. We are grateful for the support weāve received from so many listeners and sponsors over more than 40 years as Hawkesbury Radio and we believe the future looks rosy for our new combined venture HawkFM as we move into the future.
I heard that the Hawkesbury Gold Transmitter and Tower was washed away with all the recent rain, so had to do a deal with Hawkesbury Radio to stay on the air? Any truth to that?
Also I looked up the owner of hawkfm.com.au on whois.auda.org.au and it appears to be an individual, not an association, so maybe Hawk FM are leasing the domain name off this individual? Interesting arrangement.
Very important to keep all the documentation of these assets up to date, otherwise things can get messy.
