Turdall v The Entire Legal Profession


#21

That is what I initially thought. She appealed, gave evidence and was found not guilty. So her case wasn’t serious enough to go to the County Court? Is that right?

So is it that you cannot elect to have a judge alone trial in the County Court in Victoria?


#22

Correct. It’s depends on the charges and penalties available. Usually an indictable offence would go straight to the county court after a committal, but some lower level offences can be heard by magistrate only.

No juries in appellate courts.


#23

I definitely think there needs to be a reform in Victoria then. A bit ridiculous that you are forced to put your life in the hands of complete strangers with little understanding of the law, elements and evidences that needs to be provided to prove guilt.


#24

i disagree just because you dont belive in jurries dont meant that victoria doesnt need a reform far from it and so such as such is silly


#25

Yep, not perfect, but judges do direct juries in how to interpret evidience, what not to included, their excused from court for certain discussions.

Jon Faine had a good editorial on law reform recently.


#26

I think you might need to reread what you said as it contradicts itself. But yes it does need reform if parts of the country have done it successfully and there are many mistrials and wrongful convictions here in Victoria a change is needed. And I’m not just talking about innocent people being convicted but guilty people being found innocent.


#27

agree to disagree and move on


#28

Agree with that. But let me ask you this question. Hypothetically, you are charged with let’s say murder. You have an option to let 12 strangers decide if you are guilty or not or the choice to let someone who has studied law and practiced as a judge for years. In the papers they have outlined you brutally beat someone, killed them and left them for dead. They also discussed you had a relationship with this persons best friend, which is completely wrong. What would you decide? To go with a 12 random people who have likely read that article or someone who is known to be impartial and understands the law?


#29

Calling @MTLCK


#30

Not sure how I am against the entire legal profession when a justice has the same concerns as me… but I will take it.


#31

Feel free to provide exhibit A of evidence to support your case :wink:


#32

Read the article Frankie posted ops sorry it’s late it’s not from a justice haha

Judge alone trials - instead of juries - in publicity sensitive matters are part of the answer and must be adopted urgently


#33

Legal student tries to change the entire legal system sound better?


#34

Not really trying to change a legal system when pets of counrty already do what I have said. There is always room for improvement. But I have always said I wanted to change the world - perhaps this is how I will do it :stuck_out_tongue:

I just see the way juries have worked in the past. Even from the times of the witch trials. Anyone accused of being a witch was found to be guilty of being a witch. And it was because it was a ‘trend’. It’s a similar case now everyone wants to see a priest go down for a sex crime. There is this I distrust and prejudice against the church. And I am not suggesting he is innocent or even saying he is guilty. I am just saying everyone wants, espcially the media, to see a priest go to jail. Now if it turns out he is found guilty from a judge in the appeals court the jury has obviously got the decision right. I just feel there was some injustice and prejudice that could have went on, which would have been avoided if a judge alone trial was undertaken.


#35

Here is another article https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/andrews-government-considers-judge-only-trials-for-criminal-cases-20181213-p50m5u.html


#36

The Guardian answers some FAQs about the case which may address some of the concerns raised in this thread


#37

Also judge-only trials are on the radar of the law reform commission it seems


#38

Yeah I did some research and its definitely something the current government is looking into. I believe Victoria is the only state in Australia that doesn’t offer them.