Digital Radio - Technical

8D Kings Cross is off air again.

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I’ve had 8D Kings Cross on the car radio at full strength today at both the Gosford DTV & Forresters Beach DTV sites.
Also noted Service 1 & 2 are at 64k & service 3 is only 48k.

Photo is at Forresters Beach & is as clear as I can get because of too much sun glare on the radio screen & reflection.

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You have done very well, the current 8D test transmission is extremely weak or non existent in NW Sydney, even at the good spots. Cannot get a lock on my portable or on any of our work trucks.

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The issue where ABC NewsRadio DAB switches to 95.7FM Gold Coast while driving around Brisbane hasn’t been fixed yet. Here’s the latest response from the ABC.

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What is the DAB+ SId of Brisbane’s ABC Newsradio?
PI code for GC’s 95.7MHz FM for Newsradio is: 206C

Fairly certain that FM to DAB+ switching isn’t or wasn’t supported in Australia by the CRA. @RFBurns might be able to confirm.

Might well be or should be a setting on your car radio to prevent that switch occurring. I have for the moment forgotten the radio setting term/label.

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News R Brisbane is 320B

Gold Coast is 4FAB

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No, DAB to FM switching isn’t supported in Australia by CRA, they specifically said it shouldn’t be used because while the DAB codes are allocated but can change, the FM codes aren’t regulated & as we know there’s issues just between FM stations with the same or partial same PI codes.

There’s usually a setting in your radio under DAB settings that will be called follow or similar, turn that off, sometimes it might even be called straight up DAB-FM, either way turn that setting off & you shouldn’t have any unwanted station changes.

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FM to DAB switching isn’t a thing, it’s the other way around & I’m sure you meant that, as FM is generally considered the stronger more robust signal, so when DAB fails it swaps back to FM as the DAB is more likely to drop out before FM will.

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Yes, that’s what I meant sorry, so much happening today to think about.
But also good to know there’s been no firmware functionality/international standard to allow for FM to DAB switching implemented in any tuners, thanks :+1:

Thanks for confirming again.

Thanks for confirming.

So question is: How possibly could Newsradio Brisbane DAB+ with a SId of 320B be switching to Newsradio GC with a PI code of: 206C ?
Makes absolutely no sense to me, unless @radfan your tuner’s firmware is not using these tech parameters but rather using other parameter(s) like the DAB Station Name & FM PS to match for switching? Quite unusual I would have thought. :man_shrugging:

@radfan what make/model of vehicle do you have?

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So back when I first spotted this issue I turned off Dab/FM switching which of course solves the problem but I reported to the ABC because many cars have this enabled as default and I think we all know that most people wouldn’t have a clue about this option. I have a Volvo running Android Automotive but the ABC engineer was able to replicate in a Tesla so it’s happening across at least two different types of tuners.

The other thing to note is that there is a very strong signal on ABC News Radio DAB Brisbane when the FM switch happens. What I think is happening is that at the top of the gateway bridge the tuner also picks up the Gold Coast signal (DAB can splice together multiple sources to improve reception) then as the GC source fades, the tuner switches to FM even though it has perfect Brisbane DAB reception. So it seems to me that something in the GC DAB setup is telling the tuner that if you lose the GC DAB signal, switch to 95.7FM even when there is an alternative strong DAB signal of the same station.

Re FM to Dab switching being a thing. 5 years ago, I drove from the Lake District in northern England to Glasgow listening to Radio 1. The VW tuner switched seamlessly back and forth DAB to FM and FM to DAB driving through the hills across the border. The only way to notice was that the PS changed from BBC Radio 1 (DAB) to BBC R1 (FM).

It’s odd that in Australia we struggle so much with configuring RDS and DAB when there is so much experience overseas that could be tapped into.

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Why am I unsurprised an ABC engineer is in a Tesla? :woman_shrugging:

:eggplant: :poop: :drooling_face: :moneybag: 🫷

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Great post @radfan, however you are aware here that we are constantly lamenting the errors and underfunding of Australian radio.

First to suffer is engineering, especially RF engineering, hence this result.

ABC above all underfund engineering. Remember when their studios and TX prioritised mono over stereo, claiming it was too expensive?

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It’s possible to map DAB to FM with separate SID/PI values too, for example here in the UK with the BBC -

BBC Radio 1 is C221 on DAB but C201 on FM,
BBC Radio 2 C222 and C202, and so on…

So some kind of bad config could be causing an issue in that way even when the codes aren’t identical.

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It’s Time for DAB+ in Australia to Follow Britain’s Lead and Launch 2 New Multiplexes that are For National Commercial Broadcasters on 10A and 10B, That’s 36 Extra Spaces Available for ARN, Nova, SCA and SEN to Relocate their Secondary Channels for
9A and 9B to 10A to 10B, just like Digital One do in the United Kingdom.

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Looks like the Sydney Extra low powered test on 8D is back on their more powerful antenna. Getting a weak but stable signal on my DAB+ tuner connected to the VHF tv antenna.
Currently not broadcasting any audio on Service 1/ 2 / 3.

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I guess that depends on what’s going to happen with DVB-T2, which was also going to sit in that VHF 10 spectrum for metro areas.

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Exactly, but It’s taking too Long for it to Happen. VHF Channels 10, 11 and 12 are Proposed for Digital Radio use once DVB-T is Shut down.

If you want to go to CRA with your credit card & fund it, I’m sure they’ll be happy to accommodate your request in a reasonably quick time frame, to do what you want in just the original state capitals your looking at probably somewhere around $300 million for new transmission equipment & install costs, maybe more, with very little ongoing revenue to cover those costs & ongoing’s.

Australia is very different to the UK in the way DAB+ operates & needs to operate, the only thing you can compare between the two are the base operational specifications of the DAB+ system.

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