US Politics


#888

Isn’t Trump a part of the elites or even freemasonry


#889

…Trump the neo-Nazi sympathizer has achieved what Donald Trump the president has singularly failed to do: unite the nation.

“You had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest, and very legally protest – because I don’t know if you know, they had a permit,” Trump helpfully explained to the astonished press corps at Trump Tower. “The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: there are two sides to a story.”

Sadly for Trump, there is only one side to the political reaction to his comments: sheer disgust. As an apologist for racist protestors – even though they obtained a precious permit – Trump has magically created a sense of spine in his own Republican party.

Trump has no clear ideology and no clear purpose to his presidency, other than his obsession with overturning everything Obama stood for. His presidential campaign began with a racist lie about Obama’s birth certificate; his presidency continues to smolder with resentment about the enduring life of Obamacare.


#890

#891

An opinion piece highlighting how Trump can’t help but support the ‘alt-right’, Nazis, etc. (who support him):

Donald Trump on Tuesday afternoon gave the most disgusting public performance in the history of the American presidency. Framed by the vulgar excess of the lobby of Trump Tower, the president of the United States shook loose the constraints of his more decent-minded advisers and, speaking from his heart, defended white supremacists and by extension, their credos of hatred. He equated with those thugs the courageous Americans who had gathered to stand up to the racism, anti-Semitism and doctrine of violence that won the cheers and Nazi salutes of the alt-right hordes to whom Trump felt such loyalty.


#892

A New York Times story republished by Fairfax Media:

From James Murdoch’s e-mail:

These events remind us all why vigilance against hate and bigotry is an eternal obligation - a necessary discipline for the preservation of our way of life and our ideals. The presence of hate in our society was appallingly laid bare as we watched swastikas brandished on the streets of Charlottesville and acts of brutal terrorism and violence perpetrated by a racist mob.

I can’t even believe I have to write this: standing up to Nazis is essential; there are no good Nazis. Or Klansmen, or terrorists. Democrats, Republicans, and others must all agree on this…


#893

As I’ve said, in the sick United States, to simply make factual comment about ANYTHING which is even REMOTELY connected to RACE is to face certain death - in this case the Murdochs are simply preventing the death of their media interests.

In the United States, corny cliches must be repeated on end.


#894

No fake news. Trump dumps a loyal friend. Hopefully the end is nigh.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/20840948_10209890162795250_4103857225267557651_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=c38366ae8245ade8ab99f35c82ce59fa&oe=5A34BCEA
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/20914260_10209890163035256_7303720888785439630_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=66f174180f19b56158bbde6206cce056&oe=5A17E831


#895

Headline reads: The real face of Donald Trump.


#896

How stupid. :roll_eyes:

In regards to a general “moral” judgement on the neo-Nazis (which is what the US media seems to be going crazy for, even though we know these groups have existed for years) - Trump condemned them totally.

In regards to the specific Charlottesville violence, which is the whole point why the words of the President were sought, Trump made that general “moral” judgement and then also had a specific word on why that violent clash occurred, and how violence from Antifa groups was not acceptable either.

Somehow, morons think that because it was a gathering many of whom were hardcore neo-Nazis, that any comment on who violently attacked them, initiated violence, or whatever else occurred, is totally wrong.

Therefore, if neo-Nazis were struck by a meteorite on that spot, the only acceptable thing for the President to say would be that neo-Nazis are evil (er…don’t mention that yes they may be bad people, but…a meteorite just killed them).

If neo-Nazis were gunned down by a erratic, deranged police officer…again, the President must ONLY say that neo-Nazis are evil (er…don’t mention that yes, they are, but the conduct of the police was totally unacceptable).

The idiots peddling this story even now, having had time to THINK and use LOGIC to understand why the President’s comments were nothing out of the ordinary, are seriously a few screws loose.


#897

The end is nigh?, I think you are dreaming.


#898

I dunno; pretending anything is normal with Trump in the White House sounds like spin/denying reality.

He’s not normal, and (ignoring ridiculous what-if scenarios which border on paranoia), the reality is Nazis & other far-right nutters have become more brazen in the USA, one of them murdered (peaceful) anti-racism/anti-fascism protesters (no evidence shown to the contrary), and a normal President would’ve said so, and stuck to it, instead of flip-flopping back to supporting white supremists.

Since when is being against racism, Nazism/facism a bad thing? (It shouldn’t be a right-left thing.)


#899

Yup. “Supporting” them. :roll_eyes:


#900

What happens when immature children want to “punch” and fight “Nazis”…


#901

Oh…the New York Times finally found someone with a BRAIN;

From Ms. Hicks’s perspective, the president simply pointed out a fact: Leftists bore some responsibility for the violence, too. Of course, Nazis and white supremacists are bad, she said. But she does not believe Mr. Trump has any affinity for them. He said so himself. But she is exasperated that a significant part of the country seems to think otherwise. The week’s frenzied headlines read to her like bulletins from another planet.
I feel like I am in a bizarro universe where no one but me is thinking logically,” she said. “We have gone so off the rails of what this conversation is about.”

The loony left need to get out and speak with people like this more often:

Gregory Kline, 46, a lawyer in Severna Park, Md., who is a Republican, said he did not vote for Mr. Trump but understands that part of the president’s support comes from fury at the left, particularly the media. When there is an attack by Muslim terrorists, for example, the media reaches for pundits who say most Muslims are good. But when it is a white supremacist, “every conservative is lumped in with him,” he said.


#902

Prominent US conservatives who are not white - they are definitely not white supremacists.

Newsmax’s 50 Most Influential African-American Republicans
http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/774949


#903

This false equivalence crap needs to stop.

After the neo-Nazis’ violence (including murder), no one was suggesting all white people are terrorists (unlike the implication that all muslims are bad from the likes of Trump [& Pauline Hanson] who want to ban muslim immigration); it’s of course accepted that most white people are non-violent.
That is not the same as claiming that there are some good Nazis/white supremacists.


#904

A nice headline for this worrisome story from The Telegraph (London):

It is not the case that voters are rejecting one particular brand of governing, or any specific set of economic solutions: they are just blowing up the whole idea that experience and knowledge might be needed to run a country. And this at a time when modern nationhood and global economics are more complex and sophisticated than ever before: when more, not less, expertise and competence would seem to be required as basic qualifications.

…maybe the impact of social media has elevated benighted prejudice to equal status with real knowledge and judgment.

Voters seem to be demanding that they be governed by people who sincerely understand their desires but who are so unaware of the workings of government that they are incapable of fulfilling them. Authenticity equals stupidity – or maybe the other way round.

…the new concept of democracy: the absence of experience and knowledge becomes the highest recommendation for office because you sound just like the demos, otherwise known as ordinary people. The more crass or simple-minded or demotic your pronouncements are, the more trustworthy you must be.


#905

Erm…is that really what they’re saying? I think it’s more along the lines of: a) people don’t want Islamic terrorism to the extent we are now seeing in western Europe, where the % of population identifying as Muslim is reaching 5%, b) therefore, reducing migration from Islamic countries means less likelihood of Islamic terrorism here. Now it’s open to everyone to argue how DISPROPORTIONATE that response would be…but it’s hardly insane…

Further, to now apply your standards…do you (of course) accept that as one-Neo Nazi killed someone, that not all neo-Nazis are violent murderers? Or does your empathetic nature only extend to not linking an INDIVIDUAL’S actions with a race, as opposed to a political belief system too?


#906

Yeah, this happened when inexperienced Obama was elected on the basis of “hope” and treated his 8 years as President as one of celebrity…guess what, Trump is the next extension!


#907

What?
If you’re waving a Nazi swastika flag, shouting “Jews will not replace us”, etc., it’s not me or anyone else labelling them; they’ve chosen to identify themselves with the worst of humanity, and Trump’s statements that there were good people among that group of neo-Nazis, KKK, white supremacists is indefensible (and irrational).

I was pointing out the selective reframing of the comparison, using different (and mismatched) groups:
Keeping it simple, saying not all Muslims are bad would equate to saying not all Christians are bad.

I’m happy to condemn all neo-Nazis, along with the KKK, other racial supremacists, Islamic (& other religious) terrorists, ISIL and others who persecute & terrorise people because of attributes which they have no choice in (such as race, skin colour, sexuality), or just because they don’t share their religious beliefs.

Politics can matter. Just as I believe in religious freedom, we should all be free to have our own political views, but when someone/group pushes their ideology and that hurts other people (for example trying to rip away health care so poor people can’t get treatement & die), then it’s not just an academic discussion, so I have a problem with it.

You think Obama treated the presidency as a celebrity show, really? Ridiculous.
That’s just more false equivalence.

Obama’s mistake was being too nice for too long; he shouldn’t have kept trying to get everyone to agree for so long; the Republicans were never going to agree with him. He should’ve pushed through reforms within the 1st year and had them go into force before the next election, instead no Medicare for all, and a half-arsed Affordable Care Act which took how many years before going live, allowed the Republican lies to take hold, but Obama’s negotiating approach was part of his appeal, so it’s not so simple.

Yes Americans have for some time shown they want big change in Washington, DC, and Trump’s election is a continuation of that desire which was evident with Obama’s election (and it is why Democratic Party primary voters were wrong to nominate Hillary), but too many US voters also vote against their own interests by re-electing the worst of the real money & power establishment, the Republicans in Congress.

Too many people believe the right-wing conspiracy theories & propaganda pushed by the likes of Fox News Channel, no matter how nonsensical they are.

The US political system is fundamentally geared to be slow & difficult: Gridlock is built into a system where a president, majority of House of Representatives & majority of Senate all have to agree before any law can change (plus things like filibuster & earlier on things getting held up in committees).

It’s sad that they’re only continuing down their path of self-destruction.