Federal Politics

If someone asked me who was Prime Minister of Australia during World War I I’d have no idea.

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Exactly, the questions are freely available and the answers easily Googled. If your citizenship depended on it, the average person would need 20 minutes at most to know 75%.

Keep in mind a large portion of immigrants (Indian and Britons) already have decent English, and in the latter example, a strong idea of Australian values through cultural similarities. I’d wager 95% of continental Europeans searching for citizenship would also already have a strong grasp of English, owing to the language’s pervasiveness.

Once again, mountains from molehills.

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It’s a distraction from a party and a leader who is losing in the polls. As noted by a number of media outlets, this is the same sort of thing John Howard did in 1996 when he was trailing in the polls and he ended up losing the election. It’s no coincidence that these announcement are happening just before a weekend newspoll.

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Well yes.

It’s also an attempt to appear stronger on immigration as to weaken One Nation. At this point the moderate centre has deserted LNP for Labor and minor parties, and most likely won’t be coming back, so trying to at least bring back 1N voters is a decent play for Turnbull.

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It’s also an attempt to pacify growing discontent inside the Liberal Party.

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No, but Anzac is one of those ‘things’ that defined Australia and created a national identity separate from that of Britain. I’d wager it belongs there more so than many questions.

I’d wager most in the community, and especially fourth and fifth generation Australian families like my own, would be with me on that one, especially considering it was our ancestors who fought there.

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It doesn’t belong there at all. This is niche, between the lines, subconscious history that of course “most in the community” support because they’re brainwashed by Aussie media.

Do you know (and it’s a rhetorical question) which battle in World War I Canadian troops were involved in which supposedly, somewhere, somehow, lead to a “distinct national identity”? Is this sort of trivia something you would expect to quiz new people moving to Canada on, from non-English backgrounds?

Why? What does it prove? Why do you need to study what ANZAC means?

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Imagine new people moving to France in the 20th century and being quizzed on Napoleon’s war time battles. Totally bonkers. “Aussie” propaganda.

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Huh? I am lost. Didn’t John Howard win in 1996/97 election

Have you been paying attention? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: They have to be here for four years before they take the test for citizenship. I’m sure they’ll notice ANZAC day before they take the test.

Also, I don’t care that I don’t know a Canadian battle. If I were living in Canada for four years and taking a Canadian citizenship test, I probably would however.

I seriously don’t think you know what you’re talking about mate. The role which ANZAC played was significant in very much beginning a movement away from blindly following the British. At the time we were independent but only slightly; the decision to invade Gallipoli was, from a historical standpoint, the moment in which Australians at the time became estranged with empirical rule. That’s pretty fucking significant by any measure.

Calling ANZAC propagandised is just silly. Mainstream commercial media may oversaturate the shit out of it, but that’s their bread and butter and I’d prefer they did that rather than simply ignoring it or calling it some cultural relic.

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John Howard defeated Paul Keating well in 1996. In 1998, he won the election against Kim Beazley with 80 seats but lost the popular vote by 200,000 votes.
I think @JBar is either wrong or meant 2006.

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So what. They’ll notice a million things before they take a test.

You would. Most others without an English background wouldn’t.

You’re confusing me criticising the cliches and wishy washy language, with me not knowing history.

“movement away from blindly” " we were independent but only slightly" “the moment in which Australians at the time became estranged” “pretty fucking significant” are imprecise statements on which no one’s right to live in this country as a citizen should be based.

So then they’ll have time to learn decent English and at least be aware of specific cultural norms and customs, including ANZAC day. That will come in handy when they sit down to study for the test. [quote=“Firetorch, post:316, topic:1123”]
You would. Most others without an English background wouldn’t.

[/quote]
If my citizenship depended on me answering some questions, yes I would. [quote=“Firetorch, post:316, topic:1123”]
“movement away from blindly” " we were independent but only slightly" “the moment in which Australians at the time became estranged” “pretty fucking significant” are imprecise statements on which no one’s right to live in this country as a citizen should be based.
[/quote]

Imprecise as those statements may be, that’s a brief summary of what happened.

Also note that a question on ANZAC already existed in the previous test implemented by Howard, asking what event ANZAC day commemorated. As I understand it, the old test allowed those who failed the test on the third attempt to then take a course to be taught the answers.

[quote=“TFTV, post:315, topic:1123”]
I think @JBar is either wrong or meant 2006.
[/quote]Howard lost in 2007. I apologise on behalf of @JBar, he must’ve started his ritualistic Friday night apple martini binge a few hours early.

Ha! Ha!
And yes Howard won in 2007 but Jbar was talking about polls in the lead up which lead to policy change which is why I assumed he meant 2006. :v:

It was Scotch and Cokes but how did you know I started early? :laughing: You guys were absolutely right about it actually happening back in 2006 and losing in 2007. And you were absolutely right about my bi-monthly catch-up with the boys which this time started at lunchtime. :laughing:

No he didn’t. Kevin 07 won that one. Yes, I meant in 2006 and he lost in 2007. :wink:

If you have another look at the first question about ANZAC Day you’ll see that it is really testing knowledge of public holidays; and what could be more Australian than that? :slight_smile:

Why wasn’t it a “specific cultural norm and custom” for Aussies themselves until ~20 years ago? (And I don’t need an anal analysis of it before that time - you know what I mean).

So? How does this mean anything? Of course those right-wingers that support this test are going to say “yes I would do the test” - that’s a given - reality of those seeking citizenship a lot different.

But it’s not a summary. It’s a massage of the English language to produce between-the-lines statements that have no meaning to people that often come from backgrounds where communication is literal and direct.

As for Howard’s test, who cares. Was stupid then, stupid now.

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Well it needs to be pointed out because the behaviour is being repeated.

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ANZAC Day was first observed in Australia in 1927? What on earth are you on about?

Sorry, I’m going to need an anal analysis because you’re all over the place. [quote=“Firetorch, post:321, topic:1123”]
So? How does this mean anything? Of course those right-wingers that support this test are going to say “yes I would do the test” - that’s a given - reality of those seeking citizenship a lot different.
[/quote]

I’m a lefty and I support a test in order to ensure that people who become citizens at least are aware of the cultural and political norms which define this country. Even if it’s a token effort, at least migrants are made to be aware of them instead of just being able to become citizens. It at least begins some semblance of integration.

[quote=“Firetorch, post:321, topic:1123”]
But it’s not a summary. It’s a massage of the English language to produce between-the-lines statements that have no meaning to people that often come from backgrounds where communication is literal and direct.
[/quote]I don’t exactly understand how that relates to what I said. The question is straightforward, “what does ANZAC day commemorate?”, to which the correct answer is “the Gallipoli landings”. The incorrect answers are obviously so. There’s no trick.

Are you suggesting that some languages are too direct and literal to handle multiple question tests? NAPLAN must be difficult in those countries then.

edit: got your context; to your logic, how is anything ever summarised effectively under your logic at all? Summaries exist to be bitesize; if your intention is to get an in-depth understanding of an issue, go read a book about it.

Awesome - I’m glad you agree - give new migrants a book, online reading resources or assist them in making use of their local library, so they can get an in-depth understanding of whatever they wish to. Surely this is more important in making migrants feel welcome and integrated. Giving them the tools to expand their knowledge in a way they want to - rather than putting them to multiple choice tests.

Nice bit of anal trivia to be included in the test then! You know exactly what I mean as regards to the emphasis which has been placed on ANZAC commemorations in the last couple decades, especially compared with Remembrance Day - stop acting bamboozled.

What’s a cultural norm? Who determines? Which ones define this country? Isn’t much of politics itself today in the west a fundamental disagreement about cultural norms?

We’re inviting someone to this country with their own cultural background. We expect them to live happy and content lives in Australia, not foist propaganda onto them. And it doesn’t begin “some semblance of integration” at all. It’s just wrote learning irrelevant tidbits.